Commission Impossible

CIC - the magic roundabout
That dagger is eventually going to connect to a completed Eaton Ave and be a very busy intersection when the latest Symme city aka Wildwood Estates, Hancock Park, Sycamore Glenn And Mtn Vista are built out. I like roundabouts. Dense people that can't figure them out are the real problem. My humble opinion.

Lon--

You jest; "the northwest road seems to jut off to nowhere. Where is it going?"

That is, of course, the connector to Eaton Road, which, when completed, will become the new CA32 bypass around town, and as such, will probably carry significant traffic loads on a four-lane, semi-divided arterial at upwards of 45 MPH, only to dump this traffic onto a relatively short stretch of two-lane Manzanita before once again going 4-lane and increasing speed to 45 MPH at Bruce Road.

I think it was a mistake not to re-engineer Manzanita to 4-lane/45MPH, but that's what we have to work with. So the purpose of the proposed Manzanita roundabout is to force eastbound Eaton traffic to slow down (roundabouts are best engineered to traverse at around 27 MPH) before hitting the narrow, slower stretch crossing the park. It's a safety thing, what with all the cyclists, equestrians, pedestrians, kids, and, you know, disc golfers in the vicinity....

Maybe that's where Eaton Rd. will come around and tie in as a Hwy. 32 bypass someday. It's obvious looking at the google satellite shot, that the fire station was shaped to fit into one quadrant.

Looks like good down the road planning.

Looks like you guys beat me to the post button again.

One good thing about the bypass is it will keep all the Stony Creek gravel trucks from driving through the middle of town on their way to the Skyway. This should make a lot of people feel better.

CIC- looks like the magic carousel(merry-go-round,round about) from doogal. It is the one that holds Z-BAD.

If you look at this Google Earth shot, you'll see the other portion of the "road to nowhere" a section of Eaton road completed, but not yet connected to where Eaton dead ends at Floral:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.770218,-121.81881&spn=0.012023,0.021715&t=h&z=16

I've found out that the roundabout nub to nowhere is the Eaton Road extension and part of the master plan to solve the local budget problem. The plan for economic development is described above. It is also the location for the 3rd Wal-Mart, and Enloe's 22nd Century expansion, which will begin in May.

Lon

Hi Lon!

I am among the dastardly devils that fought for the roundabouts at East/Eaton/Wildwood/Manzanita; Manzanita/Hooker Oak Ave, and Manzanita/Valombrosa.

http://www.accsat.com/manzanita.htm

The project was approved by City Council May 22, 2002….

In my humble opinion, those roundabouts will perform in all respects, better than signalized intersections that were proposed. With vastly superior aesthetics, safety, fuel effeciency and noise reduction relative to the signalized intersections.

This is particularly true of Manzanita/Valombrosa. A spot that sees cars parked for ½ to ¾ of a mile 2 to 3 times a day during the school week.

You’d croak if you saw the magnitude, size and number of lanes associated with the proposed signalized intersections. Plus, there was a wee bit of problem getting trucks into and out of the Fire Station with the signalized intersection.

The signalized version of the East/Eaton/Wildwood/Manzanita intersection was similar in size to 20th Street/Forest Ave.

Primarily because with signalized intersections – you need to build vast asphalt areas to park those vehicles waiting for their turn to move (as they sit there burning fuel), whereas a properly designed and functioning roundabout keeps the vehicles moving…. While it is true that vehicles moving thru a roundabout are slowed to 12-18 MPH - Generally the AVERAGE time through the corridor is faster with a roundabout because you don’t have vehicles parked waiting for their turn….. among many other advantages of a properly designed and functioning roundabout.

I started out as a skeptic, did my homework, and became sold on the concept. Particularly after touring some in Davis with their traffic engineer and saw before and after videos of traffic flow. Before there were either lights or stop signs, with the ‘after’ being crude but effective roundabouts.

The 8th avenue roundabouts do not serve as good examples of what we’ll see on the Manzanita Corridor. There are serious differences in the diameters and the road geometry feeding the roundabouts.

I think that once folks have a year with these, we will see an improved attitude toward roundabouts… Like everything else, they must be properly designed and built, and they are not the answer for every location….

We should get together, I can show you reams of data to support the concepts, and some of the preliminary drawings of what is coming… If the current time line holds, we will, at long last see the Lindo Channel and Chico Creek bridges widened this year, with the roundabouts being completed in 2009.

More information here:
http://www.accsat.com/manzanita.htm

Mark,

I actually like roundabouts quite a bit. This was a big roundabout and a big change to the area, particularly the entrance to Middle-Upper Park. I figured I'd throw it out for discussion.

And you don't get discussion unless you can mention Bidwell Ranch and Wal-Mart in the same paragraph.

On a side note I received a primer on the Hooker Oak Recreation Area roundabout when trying to locate a picnic site for the Sherwood Forest kid's disc golf course. I was surpised at how significant the changes to the area will be just regarding that loop-de-loop.

You can show me your drawings if you want. But you had me at "Hi Lon".

Lon

>"I was surpised at how significant the changes to the area will be"

Yes, that is something of an understatment.

As a 40++ year visitor to HO Park and Bidwell park in general, I was agast and upset at some of the alternatives that were being suggested for the area...

I honestly believe that if retired Civil Engineer Dan Cook, who lives on the corner of Manzanita and Valombrosa, had not invested massive amounts of his own time and money in formulating much of the current project - we would have seen a virtual duplication of the industrial-strength-UGLY East Avenue shoved right through this area.

Shoot, they had a MASSIVE intersection in line for Manz/East/Eaton/Wildwood with big eye-sore traffic light intersection at Manzanita/Hooker Oak and Manzanita/Valombrosa.

There is no question that the traffic capacity of the artery needs to be increased... We'll still move the traffic, but with a great deal more class than all of the other alternatives that had been brought forth.....

Yes, there will be change... but I think that it will turn out quite nicely :-)

... as for change to the area...

I remember riding my bike from where the 7-11 is now to HO Park, up a sleepy little, narrow, two-lane road with no curbs, gutters, or sidewalks. The road ended at Cactus Avenue.

The Road was East Avenue....

From there you either had to fight the puncture vine on the dirt trail to the park, or ride down cactus to Manzanita....

I remember when Manzanita crossed Lindo Channel via a causeway rather than a bridge ... it was closed by high water most of the winter.

Lon;

Only the City knows what is going on with the Fire Station 5 roundabout.....and the Manzanita Corridor reconstruction project. The City has stated that they will tell the world "all" sometime in March 2008.

The Fire Station 5 roundabout replaces a 23 traffic lane intersection like the one at 20th and Martin Luther King Parkway. The contract plans for the intersection were all aproved in 1994,however no work has started.

The fire trucks can not get out of the new Fire Station and onto the street when all of the cars are stopped at the automatic red lights that go on when the trucks clear the overhead station doors.

This roundabout may have saved someone that called 911 for help. The error cost about $200,000 but better to fix it now than after spending $4,000,000 on the intersection.

Dan,

I think the city is getting ready for construction in the next month or so.

On the automated lights, I assume the trucks will exit heading east from the station. Is the egress at one of the traffic lanes as opposed to directly into the roundabout? T

hat would seem to be a problem, unless traffic was stopped well short of the roundabout.

Lon

There are two key benefits to roundabouts over stop signs and traffic lights:

1) They improve safety
2) They keep traffic moving toward their destination, which improves fuel efficiency and cuts down on vehicle emissions.

Here is what I wrote about it:

http://www.norcalblogs.com/sustainable/2007/09/in_defense_of_traffic_circles.html

Jeremy,

I think they cost a lot less as well. Last I heard a traffic light runs around $300K these days.

Lon