Iconoclastic

Hi Meagan, thank you for the kind words. And I appreciate you being honest about what you would consider exceptable testimony.

I want to clarify one thing real quick. Oil does factor in our in interest over there, and quite frankly, it should. But Abizaid did not suggest that that was the only reason to be in Iraq.

Furthermore Meagan I don't think Abizaid or Greenspan would agree with some of your positions on a variety of topics. I am willing to bet based off of my limited knowledge of Abizaid that his world view and yours do not mesh. Yet on this topic you seem to accept his analysis. That gives me some pause. Im not sure your being intellectually honest in this respect.

But now I will get to the crux of the matter. Al Qeada in Iraq. I can offer my personal experience as evidence that Al Qeada is operating in Iraq.

I would also bring to bear that Al Qeada claims that they are in Iraq.

I'm not sure I even know of one serious liberal politician who denies the existence of Al Qeada in Iraq now.

You have already mentioned that you will not accept the combined conclusions of the DOD, DOS, CIA, DIA etc. Which I think is a shame, because it suggests that you believe that the combined personnel of these organizations hold a greater allegiance to a temporary administration than to the United States and the Constitution. this has not been my experience. I trained and worked every bit as hard during the Clinton Administration as I have during the Bush admin.

Lastly I would like to address the logic, or existential reality of refusing to accept the evidence given on verifiable actions from people who may or may not agree with you on various political positions.

Essentially you are saying that you refuse to have your mind changed by someone with a different world view, despite whatever evidence they bring to bear. I think this is a very closed mind position, and a very surprising statement coming from you, since I don't feel you fit such a definition. I would understand this statement if we were talking about something philosophical, but we are taking about something absolutely verifiable.

By definition you would have to challenge your own beliefs if you found them to be shared by someone with an opposing world view. As strange as this sounds, it is the logical outworking of your statement.

I would also stress that even if Al Qeada were not in Iraq I would still have supported this mission. The war on terror is larger than 1 organization.

Thanks again Meagan

have a good Halloween!

Nick

P.S. I will also remind you of one more point Meagan.

When we conducted our debate on Post Scripts, you started your opening statement by professing a love for the law. You accurately stated that in a trial one is forced to put aside their preconceived notions, and bias as much possible and make a decision based off of the evidence presented.

I agree with your affinity for the law, but I think your statement regarding what you would accept as evidence, and who you would except as trustworthy on this topic runs contrary to that statement.

Take care!

Nick

I can tell you ma'am, that that gentleman's comments do not come from a place of "honesty and integrity."
Spend one day listening to KPAY and you will hear everything Mr. Freitas has said. Anyone can parrot hate radio.
Kindest regards,
Terry

Mr. Freitas; you were in high school during the Clinton administration! Who are you trying to fool? You may have done some driver's training, but that's about it.
Al Qaeda is definitely in Irag--but they weren't before your boy, Bush, started this mess!

Well Mr./Ms Pirata I can tell you that I was assigned to the 82nd ABN DIV from Oct of 1998 through Jun of 2001.

I had finished Infantry Basic, Airborne school, Air Assault school, Basic EMT Course, Ranger school, etc. All prior to the end of the Clinton administration in 2001. Actually, I hadn't received any drivers training...lol. Most of the people in my platoon at that time hadn't received drivers training as we were an ABN unit, which is comprised of light infantry. I have the paper work to back all of that up if your interested, but something tells me your probably not.

Please explain to me what part of my speech was "hateful"? Or have you redefined the word "hateful" to mean "Whatever Terry disagrees with".

If you had payed attention to Meagans comment which started this discussion you would know that we have been discussing whether or not AL Qeada is currently in Iraq, not what actions may or may not have put them there.

I find it very telling, that without knowing me, and having apparently little knowledge of the combat arms wing of the military you felt it appropriate to accuse me of lieing and hate speech, with out presenting any evidence to support your irresponsible claims.

I don't find this especially surprising as I am accustomed to people on the far left responding as you have, when presented with an alternative view of a controversial situation.

I am very thankful Meagan is not one of those people. She, unlike yourself, is a far better representative of stated liberal values; and does not instantly assume the worst about someone based off of nothing more than differing political views.

A couple of corrections, I goofed big time, the rank I mentioned should be stated as "SFC", Sergeant First Class (E7). I wrote it like they did for Navy ranks! lol Sorry.

Next, I wanted to make it clear we were talking about AQ being in Iraq pre-invasion and afterwards, right?

The pre-invasion numbers were limited to a few operators, but they were there and they were talking with Hussein's people.

Yes, our presence in Iraq has been like a magnet for them and every other wannabe wacko terrorist and that was expected and was hoped for to some degree, because it is eliminating many hardcore fighters.

Unfortunately, there has also been plenty of Iraqi people killed that believed they were defending their turf from the infidels.

War is bloody ugly and its why it should be the last resort only after all means of peaceful resolutions have been exhausted.

Note: The time allowed for peaceful resolution is dependant on how many innocent people are dying every day that the peace talks drag on, i.e. Darfor.

I think I am owed a response from Terry.

Terry, to my knowledge we have never met, yet you found it appropriate to make very disparaging and FALSE comments about my integrity and experience.

If you believe you are correct, I would ask you to present the necessary evidence. If you simply misspoke in a fit of passion, then come back to this blog, admit it, and I will be more than happy to except that as an apology.

I think everyone posting here will agree that I am entitled to at least one of those two options.

Well Terry, I guess your silence tells us far more than a response could have.

You are hit and run artist. A slanderer who chooses to label people rather then engage them in honest debate.

Yes your silence says a great deal, none of it flattering.

With reference to Al Qaeda I do not think this organization exists other as such, than in your mind, the set up has no self defining state, other than a few individuals that are aligned to the idea that the 1st world ruling elite is a oppressive system upon the 3rd World in particular, and others,and the policy that exists in their aspirations of relief from the conditions that seem to be oppressive, the system that they are opposed to, are convenient to the West, on many levels that would take to long to enumerate here, one important factor is that it has the important effect to galvanize the society in a self defining role that supports the idea of integration in other wise a collapsing society, that has now lost its way, that requires self substantiation of its own autonomy, the oppressive nature of its own native population is paramount in its tyranny for mind control of the masses, the universal fear syndrome the ruling elites require, the submission of all to operate the agenda, that owing to its self delusion that appears on the surface as a superior mind set it is to the fearfull that this strange group is in itself having grave doubts about its own sanity, as an example Donald Rumsfeld whom had a policy of softening them up, and as we saw the out come in part at Abeu Grave, it is this mentality of Mr Strange love, reminiscent of Germany 2ND WW, to me it is amazing that you would even talk about honesty, nevertheless we must all indulge in our own flights of fancy to pass the time away, if only our mindless state can stay on the road long enough and time does not slow down, and we find our selves in the casualty ward,with our shattered body and the dream time ebbing out of us, hoping against hope that the emergency op will save us, have I not said my prayers to the almighty?, has the power supply been cut? the drip feed got electricity?, damn the middle East and their dwindling oil supplies who do they think they are? I need another blood transfusion, I am afraid the blood group you have is to obscure and we are waiting for your type to come in, anyhow its not the same but but we have a little plasma that may get you through the night. don wreford. Australia.