A Thoughtfull Response to my Last Blog
Joe,
My first question would be, what is your real goal here? Do you seriously want to end the division, or do you really just want left wing control of government? I ask this honestly and without malice, I just want to know.
If you really want to end the division, starting out with a list of "failed right wing policies" is probably not the way to do it. I could point to just as many failed left wing policies and we could remain in hatefull standstill, forever locking horns.
The other suggestion I would make is not to assume that right wing issues are hedge issues that don't matter. Gay marriage is not trivial bullshit to the christian families who believe strongly that it is wrong. Gun laws are not trivial to those who believe strongly in the 2nd Amendment (in our bill of rights, nonetheless) and who believe that those who would take away guns would next seek to take away our freedom.
Probably the most important issue to those on the right currently is our nation's border security. Right now border security is a joke. No matter how you feel about immigration, we should not seek to reward those who break our nation's laws. This issue matters to regular, working class voters.
So, if you want to bridge the divide, I would advise you not to trivialize our issues. Those issues may not matter most to you, but frankly, your issues don't always matter the most to us. If those of you on the left think gay marriage is so trivial, why do you keep bringing it up in the legislatures? Obviously it matters to you or we'd never hear about it.
If you want to bridge the divide, perhaps you should look for some common ground. Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama are not common ground. They are far to the left of center and working hard to prove that to democratic party voters all the time.
John McCain, on the other hand, is a more moderate, middle-ground candidate. He is moderate enough that many conservatives do not like him. Many liberals also do not like him. But many independents love him. What does that tell you? Well, many voters believe that anything that keeps the fringe politicals equally unhappy is probably best for everyone else over the long haul.
Now, you can come back and attack John McCain, that would certainly be the divisive thing to do, but the question here, Joe, is do you want to divide or unite this country, or do you really just want a liberal victory? I'll accept whatever answer as your honest opinion, but you should first be honest with yourself....Dane Langston
JOE'S REPLY....
You bring up good points Dane, as you always do. I will be happy to clarify where I was coming from. The point I was trying to make in that blog was that I feel this widening division we are experiencing between the left and the right is solely to blame on right wing politics and policies. You folks were pretty upset over Bill Clinton lying about sex, but wasn't that about the worst thing he did as president? Was it really that big a deal? From the left, we have plenty of real issues and problems that the Bush administration has forced down our collective throats....case in point, re-read my blog. And I believe that helplessness we feel from the left is the reason for this political gap. I understand that you could point out many failed left wing policies, but isn't it the right wing policies from the last 7 years that have gotten us in the trouble we are in right now?
Now you ask if I really want left wing control of the government. Well, since I subscribe to many of the left wing ideologies, yes I would like to see the left in power again. But no I do not think the government should be without balance. There are left wing ideologies I do not subscribe to that need to be kept in check by the right.
You say that right now our border security is a joke and I would have to agree....but who's been in charge for the last 7 years?
The reason that gay marriage was bought up is because this is a group of people, Americans, that are being denied certain rights by the right just because they disagree with their lifestyle. Gay rights is a trivial issue to most of us but you attempted to trivialize larger issues by putting so much focus on gay marriage in an election year just to give the religious right a reason to get out and vote, because if it wasn't for the gay issue, many republicans would not have bothered to vote and Bush needed their vote. Now as I recall, the gays were not trying to make gay marriage an issue at the time, it was the republicans who were making it an issue to motivate the far right to vote. Another trick from the devious mind of Karl Rove.
Most democrats do not want to take away any guns from law abiding citizens or their right to have them. Maybe the far left does, but this is one of the reasons we need balance in government. Again, the republicans always use this issue to motivate the far right to vote.
John McCain would probably be a better president than George Bush has been. But better isn't good enough. He would be more of the same in too many ways. We need RADICAL change if we are to ever get out of this war and turn our economy around. Tell me what John McCain would do any different than George Bush, other than be a better communicator? I actually respect McCain for many things he has done, but personally, I feel he has been emotionally and permanently damaged from his war experiences and that's just a little too scary to entrust him as leader of the free world. Because of right wing policies, America has been losing ground in education, manufacturing, keeping up the infrastructure, deficit control, border control, trade deficits, the value of the American dollar, gas prices....and on the other hand we have created more terrorist's, increased the national debt, weakened the response of our military, Bin Laden runs free....I mean, really.... tell me Dane, tell me one area we have improved in under George Bushes watch? The only good thing I can say about him is that we have not been attacked since 9-11, at least not in this country....but don't say that to the families of 4,000 kids that have been killed by terrorist's in Iraq. How much further down the tubes do we need to go before we realize that we cannot stay in this direction? So when I talk about the widening gap between the left and the right, in reality you can say the right hasn't moved away, but they have sure pushed the rest of us away!
Comments
Dane says....
Joe,
I appreciate you being honest about where you're coming from. It bothers me that some liberals go around touting the benefits of tolerance and "understanding" our enemies, but then do exactly the opposite.
Joe's reply....You must be talking about other liberals because I have never once written anything about being tolerant of terrorist's.
Dane goes on....
Once you pick sides in politics, you've basically made an intolerant decision of the other side.
Joe's reply....
I don't buy that, didn't I say that I believe we need balance in government?
Dane goes on....
What always got me was the liberal idea that we could sit down and communicate with terrorist nations, but liberals in this country still don't understand conservatives or the issues that matter to us, they just think we're bitter and clinging to our guns and religion. Probably because we're all just dumb hicks.
Joe's reply....I think we should always try communicate with any enemy, before, during, and after conflict. Communication is never a bad thing. There ARE plenty of dumb hicks who cling to guns and religion but I wouldn't say they make up the majority of the republican party.
Dane goes on....
So you and I are now resolved not to understand each other, or to agree with each other, but instead to lock horns in debate and political battle. I have chosen my side and you have chosen yours. This is why our country is so divided, which was your original question.
Joe's reply....
I'm sure we have different views as to why we are so divided, but I don't think it's because the two sides disagree, were always gonna have disagreement, just as we always have. I'm saying the problem is that in the last 7 years, the left has had little say, we've been ignored in major policy making decisions.
Dane goes on....
You mention the current state of the economy as being the fault of the president. To some degree presidents always get the credit or blame here. But here's two more points: One is that Clinton's economy really took off when he got a Republican Congress, and Bush's economy really started to go south when he got a democrat congress.
Joe's reply....
The republican congress under Clinton was more conservative in their spending and therefore deserve much of the credit for the balanced budget and lower deficits under Clinton. However, under Bush, they went crazy to say the least. Remember, Bush never vetoed any of their spending bills. By the time the democratic congress came into power in 06, their (the republican congress) spending habits were starting to take their toll. You can't blame or give any credit to the democratic congress for anything....because of their small majority lead, the republicans have managed to stop everything they've tried to do.
Dane goes on....
My other point would be to ask what a new democrat president would do so differently that would improve our economy? After all, many democrats are now blaming NAFTA for our economy, yet NAFTA was passed by a democrat president. Democrats also blame lower taxes for our economy, but tell me Joe, how does taking more money out of my pocket and giving it to bureaucrats help our economy? In my eyes, all that does is limit my ability to buy housing and food for my family, it doesn't help me any.
Now, both of your democrat candidates for president recently voted to increase my tax burden, but John McCain did not. McCain voted to extend the Bush tax cuts which bring tax relief to millions of middle-class taxpayers. Again, I don't see how punishing taxpayers does anything positive for the economy.
Joe's reply....One of the most outragous right wing spins that we hear over and over is that the dems want to raise your taxes....not true. Hillary and Barak have both said they would not raise taxes on anybody earning under $200,000 a year.
Dane goes on....
You also mention gas prices in regards to the economy. John McCain recently called for a hold on federal gas taxes to give consumers a break at the pumps. Democrats are against this. In fact, many democrats think gas prices should be higher in order to force people out of their cars (environmental extremists). So I don't see the democrat party helping out here either.
Joe's reply....Most of the money the government is spending these days is not from taxes collected, but from barrowed money. Should we do a gas tax cut if it means that we will have to barrow the difference? Aren't we having to barrow the money for the tax refund, the stimulus package were all getting? Is that worth it?
Dane goes on....
As far as the war, (this could be worth a series of posts) I don't buy the idea that Bush has "created" more terrorists anymore than I believe that exterminators create cockroaches. The cockroaches are already there, it's just that the guy flipping the rock has exposed them. Bush has exposed, killed, and brought to justice more terrorist cockroaches than any other president in history. Every cockroach we kill in Iraq is one less that can come to America and kill innocent people, just as they did on 9/11.
Joe's reply....I don't buy into this. These terrorists coming into Iraq, the ones we have been killing and getting killed by, were just a bunch of inbred sheep herders. Had we not invaded Iraq, they would still be herding sheep and fornicating with their sisters, not plotting more 9-11's.
Dane goes on....
Now you may not support this tactic in Iraq, but Hillary and Obama have voted to continue funding this action so they must not really be opposed to it. They have "talked" about opposing the war in front of liberal audiences, but their votes do not reflect their words.
Joe's reply....I agree with you on this point. They might say that their vote to fund the war is out of neccessity to support the troops, I don't know.
Dane goes on....
You mention that you want both a radical change and balance in government, but I'm afraid you could not have both. John McCain will bring balance (republican president, democratic congress, and most people see that as a balance. On the other hand, you also won't get radical changes with Hillary or Obama. They both voted to extend the Patriot Act. However with these two you also will not get balance as they will rubber stamp most any crazy idea passed out of a democrat congress.
Joe's reply....I did not know they voted to extend the patriot act, if that's true, I would disagree with those votes. What crazy ideas have the democratic congress come up with lately? Wasn't it Bush who did all the rubber stamping with his republican congress?
Dane goes on....
The only presidential candidate who has really taken the heat for his views, who has stood up to his own party based on his beliefs, and who has suffered tremendously for our freedoms is John McCain. He is the only candidate who can possibly unite our country away from the division that you feel is a bad thing. Just last night I met an old lady, registered democrat, who told me she intends to vote for McCain. That sounds like a uniter to me.
I think it's time that people on the left just relaxed, take a deep breath, and put George Bush behind you. The man is gone at the end of the year. Clear your mind and look at the candidates now running. Who represents the broadest base of American views? Who has the real experience to run our country? Who has proven their integrity time and again? I think you'll find many of you can live with, and support a McCain presidency.
Joe's reply....We will never be able to put George Bush behind us. He, along with his republican congress, has driven our debt from 3 trillion up to 9 trillion dollars, and this from the party of fiscal responsibility! You folks on the right will be bitching about Clintons hummer for decades to come while 20% or more of all of your tax dollars will be going to pay for the interest alone on George Bushes debt.
I'm afraid his legacy will haunt us for generations to come my friend. Yes, lets put McCain in office, a guy who doesn't even pretend to want to end this war, a war that is costing several billion dollars a week. Maybe with four years of McCain we can drive that debt up to 12 trillion!
Posted by: Dane Langston | April 23, 2008 12:52 PM