POST SCRIPTS

Luckily the Israeli's have learned that the UN's favor is not that vital nor is their will all that strong.

The abandodnment of Israel at the UN has grown proportionately with the importance of middle eastern oil in europe.

Europes position on middle eastern conflict has very little to do with the principles the UN was founded on, and a great deal more with European oil intrests.

Israel will do what needs to be done, and thankfully the US is standing by her.

One of the big losers in this fight could be the emerging democracy in Lebanon. It's very fragile and it can't take much.

Of course, this wouldn't hurt Iran's feeling any, in fact, I think Iran would love to see Lebanon turned into another terrorist theorcracy. They also want to provoke the Arab nations into fighting Israel. How more obvious could Iran's Islamo-fascist president be when he said... "An attack on Syria would be viewed as an act of war against the Arab world."

So now this Iranian speaks for all Arabs?

"This is how the war is won, this is how you deal with terrorists."

Not really. I heard that during the course of this offensive, Israel dropped a big fat bomb on the house of some Hammas guy. Only they didn't kill the Hammas guy, just all his little children. Do you think the Hammas guy is at all deterred?

Is there a mass exodus from Gaza? Are the folk clearing out of Southern Lebanon? Nope. Them people are pissed off and dug in, and all this bombing is just making Israel look extraordinarily unhumanitarian.

As to the Iranian connection, I really hope it doesn't go that far. Israel's probably going to use it as an excuse bomb the poopy out of Iran's industrial/nuclear infrastructure. Now I think about it, I'll bet BushCo put 'em up to this whole thing. Which would explain the UN vote, which I found incomprehensible. We need to lock Mr. Bolton into a house in Florida with no electricity and toilets that don't flush.

I see libby is quite positive how we should not fight terrorism, i wonder if he/she is equally adept at telling us how we should

I wonder how "humanitarian" hizbollah thought Israel was before, or does it even matter.

As far as the Bolton comment, well i guess that passes for reason on that side of the political spectrum.

Interesting how such a dismal place would be fit for an American, but according to the left something much better (Gitmo) is wholly unsuitable for people committing deliberate acts of terror against women and children. But then why let something like intellectual honsety get in teh way. so bothersome

I heard a report from an Israeli military guy today who expects that by Monday something really big will go down.
I can't believe there are still those on the planet who aren't tired of this evil terror game:

libby, you are such a sweet child. You overlook overt acts of aggression and terror with such unapoligetic ease.

"Do you think the Hammas guy is at all deterred?"

Well gosh, the alternative is to yawn and let him continue until his goal, the complete illimination of all Jews, is reached...you want to defend that, libby?

I wish we could roll the clock back to 9/11, put the Democrats in charge and see how things would have turned out. I am sure we wouldn't be at war. I am also sure we wouldn't now or at anytime, have boots on the ground in Afghanistan. That would be too aggressive and could provoke the terrorists into doing something mean to us. We would be waiting on the UN to decide how best to proceed.
You can bet there would have been more attacks on US soil, we didn't stand up and take the fight to them. I would guess the price of gas would be cheaper but what that cheaper gas would cost in the long run wouldn't be worth it. Iran would still be developing nukes. North Korea would still be building ICBM's but they would be very subtle about it. I am sure we would be paying North Korea to be nice, because we do not want to make them mad at us. When the Left has power they only care about keeping a lid on things while they are in office. After they are gone, even if they caused the problem, it is the next guys problem. I mean come on, do you really think 9/11 was developed, trained for and carried out in the short time President Bush was in office? The Left really think they had nothing to do with 9/11. It is all Bush and the GOP that caused 9/11.
Just a little side note. Do you know what to this day has never been found in Afghanistan? A training facility for terrorists to practice high-jacking aircraft. Do you know what was found in the middle of Iraq? A training facility in the middle of nowhere with the fuselage of a jetliner and no runways. The thing about no runways is so there is no misunderstanding, this isn't an abandoned airport, it was a terrorist training camp.
The Left also believe Iraq had no ties to any terrorist organizations.
Did you know that before we went into Iraq, Saddam would pay money to the families of suicide bombers that killed Jews?
We not only did ourselves a huge favor by removing Saddam, we did Israel a huge favor also. Now Israel is not only defending it's self but it is also helping us.
Notice how fast the UN acted to slam Israel for kicking butt and taking names but wont do jack $#@! to deal with North Korea or Iran. You people on the Left really need to wake up if you ever want to take back anything. Appeasement only guarantees more attacks against us on our soil. You would think, after all the time most libs have spent becoming professional students, they would have that figured out.
I am not thrilled with how my party deals with winning, that is one of my major problems with the GOP. We won, they lost, we should shove our agenda down their big mouths and tell them to deal with it. Most of us know if the roles were reversed, they would do it to us. I am however 100% behind how most of the GOP has dealt with terrorism. Now if only we would tell the UN and the Left to butt out and let us deal with the terrorists as we see fit. Saddam is lucky when he was found cowering in that hole and taken alive. What should have happened was a grenade in the hole and no questions asked. As far as terrorist prisoners, we should leave most of them on the battlefield dead. Take some, get what we need and get rid of them. We should show them as much kindness as they have shown us.

I will never understand why the reaction of the left to acts of war is roll over and play dead (also known as the Jimmy Carter method) hoping the bad guys will just go away. These are the same people who whimper and cry about their "rights". They are completely reliant on others dying to protect those rights and seem hell bent on preventing anyone else from attaining them. A dichotomy.

“see libby is quite positive how we should not fight terrorism, i wonder if he/she is equally adept at telling us how we should�

I am not positive about anything, but I got eyes, and have been paying attention for the last 30 years. Israel’s policy toward the Palestinians has been, and is, a total failure. What they’re doing now is totally irrational, if the object is to subdue the Palestinians. Thirty years of experience tells us it won’t work.

What Israel’s doing now makes some gruesome sense, if the object is to take out Iranian infrastructure. This would explain BushCo’s enthusiasm for acts the rest of the world has denounced as inhumane and extremely provocative.

“As far as the Bolton comment, well i guess that passes for reason on that side of the political spectrum.�

It was a funny! Presumably Bolton has his instructions and acts upon them and understands perfectly well what he’s done.

“I heard a report from an Israeli military guy today who expects that by Monday something really big will go down.�

Me, I haven’t got contacts, but I can make inferences as good as anybody. I think BushCo has persuaded Israel to do what BushCo is politically unable to do.

“libby, you are such a sweet child. You overlook overt acts of aggression and terror with such unapoligetic ease.�

I don’t overlook anything. I see both sides. Maybe the soldiers got killed an kidnapped cause Hammas is tired of seeing it’s leadership missiled in the street. It’s been a bloody game of “tit for tat� ever since Israel pulled out of Gaza.

“Well gosh, the alternative is to yawn and let him continue until his goal, the complete illimination of all Jews, is reached...you want to defend that, libby?�

You can’t possibly think they’re in a position to accomplish any such thing. You’ve got your head stuck in 1967. Things have changed since then. U.S. and Israeli foreign policy have completely beggared the opposition, reduced it to guerrilla tactics, which are splendidly terrorizing, but the “elimination of all Jews� is out of the question.

“I wish we could roll the clock back to 9/11, put the Democrats in charge and see how things would have turned out. I am sure we wouldn't be at war. I am also sure we wouldn't now or at anytime, have boots on the ground in Afghanistan.�

On the contrary, we would have had 150,000 boots on the ground in Afghanistan and then Pakistan for the last four years -- instead of letting the Taliban fortify for three years, until now, when they require serious attention we are not in a position to give them.

“North Korea would still be building ICBM's but they would be very subtle about it.�

They would be working quietly, but we would know, as we knew, all about it. Now, they are not working quietly, but feverishly, ferociously, because some intellectual pigmy has been jumping up and down, calling them nasty names, and threatening invasion. (And as he has been doing this for five years, with no action forthcoming, he’s starting to look damnably foolish.)

“I am sure we would be paying North Korea to be nice, because we do not want to make them mad at us.�

Well, we’ve got both Pakistan and India on the dole, why not NK?

“When the Left has power they only care about keeping a lid on things while they are in office.�

And if successive administrations pursue the same, sensible policy, maybe the lid stays on forever. Ask yourself what decent reason could any administration have for deliberately inciting global carnage.

"I think BushCo has persuaded Israel to do what BushCo is politically unable to do."

BushCo must persuade Israel to look out for their own people? ...because BushCo can't do it politically? Ok...and what would that be?

"I don’t overlook anything. I see both sides. Maybe the soldiers got killed an kidnapped cause Hammas is tired of seeing it’s leadership missiled in the street. It’s been a bloody game of “tit for tat� ever since Israel pulled out of Gaza."

If you saw both sides (and for 30 years) you would know that the "Arab" Palestinians are nomads that have been kicked out of other Arab countries. You would know that they were welcomed and accepted by the Jews in Israel. You would know that many Palestinian people have worked and lived side by side with Jews peaceably. You would know that Palestinian schools teach their students from an early age that Isralis have no right to the land, that all of the land belongs to them. You would know that Israel would gladly live peacefully with Palestinians if the terrorist acts stopped but the radical Palestinians will not. You would know that after all of the demands of the Palestinians were met in the last agreement, peace was NOT the reward for cooperation and good faith by Israel...Instead Palestinian radicals continued with BOMBINGS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE. The two sides are not THE SAME. The Palestinian terrorists are another faction of the larger group that has as it's goal to murder or enslave you...and the rest of us, of course. This isn't "Tit for Tat"!!!

"You can’t possibly think they’re in a position to accomplish any such thing. You’ve got your head stuck in 1967. Things have changed since then. U.S. and Israeli foreign policy have completely beggared the opposition, reduced it to guerrilla tactics, which are splendidly terrorizing, but the “elimination of all Jews� is out of the question."

You're right, things have changed since 1967. Appeasement has caused the terrorist types to become bolder and bolder. Appeasers look like weak fools to these tyrannical MACHO maniacs. The point isn't that tomorrow morning they could drop a nuke and kill all Jews, the point is that it is what they live for, it is what they plan for, it is where they put all their energy and resources. They are smarter than you think and more persistent. One day, if left to their "devices", they will have nukes and biologicals and the delivery systems to boot. And that, dear libby, is what better be "out of the question".

It seems disingenuous to me to claim that a policy "doesnt work" when you (and by you I mean leftists) have been trying to thwart it since it first started. But that seems to be the montra of "modern liberalism" when it comes to foreign policy. you say something wont work (depspite the fact that a majority of the people do) and then you work non-stop to ensure that it doesnt work. Iraq is a perfect example of this. The left didnt have to power to stop it, but they were in an excellent position to help defeat those who wanted the policy to work, the end result being when things go wrong, they scream LOOK, SEE WE TOLD YOU SO! cant you see that perhaps if you had got on oard, or at least didnt actively seek to destroy the policy, how things might have gone better?

As far as Tit for tat, i dont see it. the Israelis bomb a government building which is really another way for saying a Hamas terrorist building and Hamas responds by blowing up women and children at a coffe shop. that is not tit for tat. i know in the realm of moral relatavism that should be ok, but it isnt. civilian casulties happen as a result of military operations (especially when you take your 12 year old to the "lets throw a malatov cocktai at an Israeli tank rally") but Israel does not deliberately target unarmed civilians, Hamas and Hizbollah by contrast openly admit it, and stands by the policy.

Israels policy for the last 30 years has changed several times, and your "peace at any cost strategy" hasnt worked either. I seem to recall a certain Prime Minister offering Arafat ( thats the guy liberals gave the Peace Prize to) 98% of what Arafat claimed to want, and Arafat turned it down for war.

I also find it interesting how you are so willing to say that those who claim to desire the destruction of Israel lack the means and therefore shouldnt be taken seriosuly? Wow, what a sweet claim. of course its said by you, someone who I presume has never lived in Israel, and probably didnt watch Arab armys threaten your very existance 3 times since 1948. Yes the arabs were beaten very badly each time, but do you have any idea how close it got in 1973? Did you know that Moshe Dayan actually started advising Prime Minister Golda Meir that she might want to start thinking about surrender terms? Let em put it a different way, what if every 40 year old in America could remeber vividly that a mere 33 years ago their nation was almost over run, and the equivalent of 2 million Americans were killed driving back the enemy? So perhaps you should tred a little softer when you tell Israelis to relax about threats of that nature.

let me also put something in perspective for you, since judging by your writing you have been observing for thirty years but not researching. Israel is tiny, it has no natural resources, and it still gives more to palestinian "refugees" than any arab country. (thats if your talking money for food, and medical supplies, not money for the families of suicide bombers.)Israel has a very small population. Israel has fought 5 wars in her 58 year history, 3 of them for the very survival of the nation. They are in a hostile region where most of their enemies have more natural resources and greater populations than Israel. The stated policy of Iran, a nation with vast more resources and about 7 times the population is the destruction of Israel. Its not proper for Israel to respond to those threats seriously? Thanks Neville but I think the Israelis should keep their own council on that one.

I love how liberals dont use logic, or morals to determine whether or not a policy is just or not, why would you when you have the international community. Which is apparently at all times morally superior to the US. No matter how many times it is proven, liberals always prefer to believe that the United States is nothing but profit driven, whlie France, and Russia are looking after the common good. They cant even concede taht everyone is greedy and profit driven, nope just us. Europes policy on this couldnt have anything to do with their far greater dependance on middle eastern and specifically Iranian oil exports...no..thats just a coincidence, thats not something enlightened, progressive, Europeans would do.

and the UN , well if they dont agree with the action, i guess no one should. after all Israel is outnumbered by arab countries in the UN 23 to 1, and as i said before Israel doesnt have the natural resources to offer the UN members that the arabs do, but im sure this doesnt motivate anyone.

My prolem with liberals doesnt stem as much from them wanting to believe that America is a greedy nation concerned only for its own intrests, my problem is that they think America is the ONLY country in teh world taht is apparently concerned with its own intrests. This is so blatanlty un true that to believe it you have to be compleatly ignorant of the last 5000 years of human histroy...or I guess...you could just re-write it.

Americans on the left and the right expect things to happen within a 4 year time frame, and when they dont, they immediately look for someone to blame.

As far as NK, if there is any threat which lierals have no room to speak, it is this one. Generally speaking it is bad policy to give a rouge state nucealr technology (Clinton Admin.)as long as they pinki swear to use it for good insted of evil. as far as monitering that, you have to be kiding me, the left has been working overtime since the Carter administration to destroy our humint gathering capabilities.

the point of keeping a lid on things, perahps could be best explained as the lefts attempts to contain something that they know "someone" will eventually have to deal with, just as long as its not them. And if you consider such a policy "sensible" perhaps I could introduce you to any citizen of poland aorund 1938.