POST SCRIPTS

Tina, right on, you made my day, even though I had to endure the irresponsible rantings of Ms. Robyn Blumners!

Just a few words about those so-called gunslingers Blumners labels as bad for the USA.

By now, probably most of the readers know that one of our posters is in a very special branch of the military that would qualify him as one of our nations best gunslingers, although Blumners is really addressing what is often called "Cowboy Diplomacy!" She calls it, "Gunslingers"...whatever, same thing by another term, but it's also a slight to the men/women in uniform who protect us.

Our frequent contributer (a uniformed gunslinger) is Nick F. He is one of our nations best, because he's armed not just with weapons to wage war, but with a well rounded education, experience that gives him a much broader perspective than any of his predecessors and certainly far better than the Islamofacist enemy he hunts.

He has an inquisitive passion for history and current events and that's also a great advantage over his adversaries, at home and abroad, who see life through a straw. This is why I think his opinion is so valuable to us here and why I have such distain for Bluners critical commentary. Nicks thoughts and views are in a category well above that typically found in a college classroom, where theory is often substituted for reality.

We don't thank Nick often enough for sharing his views with us and we should, so: THANK YOU NICK!!!!

Like I said, his opinions resonate with truth from his real world experiences, unlike, the opinions of the Robyn Blumners of the world. They form their opinions far away from the violence where Nick lives.

I know this sounds sort of cliché', but its still true...without people like Nick, doing what they do and at great personal risk and sacrifice, this nation would not last! People like Robyn Blumners on the other hand have quite a different impact on this country.

Ironically, her type could be almost as valuable Nick's, IF they were confronting the enemy from within their own camp, undermining their moral and relentlessly attacking their leaders on every level just like they do our camp! But, unfortunately they are not allowed to exist in the enemy's camp. But, thats ok for the Blumner's, they don't mind taking [cheap shots] at their own people, our leaders or our country. Heck, they love to [shoot down] people here and do so regularly. For them nothing is sacred, unless its another leftists [shooting] off their mouth. You never see them take [aim] at the terrorists. In my humble thinking, that makes Blumner the sort of GUNSLINGER we don't need and the Nick's of this world, the kind we do need!

Robyn said: "Bush likes his enemies in black hats and hiding in the brush. For Bush, justice gets meted out when the good guys take matters into their own hands and don't wait for lawyers with fancy words like "due process."

And then Tina said: "Wrong. Wrong! And wrong!! The assertion that this president makes decisions without knowing or consulting with Constitutional and International lawyers or scholars is ridiculous and naïve or patently stupid."

Indeed, Mr. Bush consulted our Mr. Gonzales who informed him that he needn't pay any attention to any of that ol' Constitution or to international law. Torture, no prob. Wiretapping, go for it. Which makes BushCo foreign and domestic policy out to be pretty much as Robyn has characterized it: dimwitted, shoot from the hip, idiocy -- already having godawful ramifications.

Libby, I'd happily read the transcripts from the meetings you attended.

Hey, all I have to go on is the Congressional Record, that is, the stuff that Mr. Gonzales (Attorney General of the United States and our Commander and Chief's number one legal advisor) has deigned to make known to the Congress. His positions on torture and domestic wiretapping (in addition to Mr. Bush's supreme and unassailable authority in all matters, spiritual or temporal) are a matter of public record, as are the U.S. statutes and international conventions that seemingly prohibit both.

There really is only one conclusion to be drawn from this little paradox. We got fascists in the hen house, is what we got.

Oh Poop, Libby! Your simplistic misrepresentation of what the president has done is nuts.This president and all other presidents consult with advisors all the time and we don't get to be in on the meetings or know what is said. You only care because it's a republican, admit it.

Once again none of your remarks address the central issue. Somebody gets to be responsible when bad guys are terrorizing the public. You weenies cannot be counted on for anything but silly gestures and throwing verbal rocks at the folks that are willing to save your butts. Those rocks are, I'll admit, some of the most viscious and destructive rocks in the whole history of verbal warfare, but give me a break and tell me how would you stop the real war mongers? And tell me why you never speak of the horrible things they do?

Oh, I expect the CIA has been torturing people since the organization was founded. And the erstwhile College of the Americas has taught legions of South American soldiers similar skills.

But you know, it has always been illegal. This ain't much. But it's something: our tiny little toehold on civilization. And we're losing it. It's a damned shame.

As to all those other torturing warmongers rampaging the planet, you know, I am not responsible for them. I am responsible for the whosehewhatits in the White House, and he shames me.

Gosh Libby, I feel your shame...and I can imagine the scene:

Scenario 1: You are about to be beheaded at a torturously slow and agonizing pace, as Scott Berg was. The moment is being captured in full color video. You speak up and say, "please, I'm not responsible for what you do but I am responsible for the guy in the White House and I just want you to know how sorry I am about that. America has made a dreadful mistake and we now know that you guys don't really mean to harm anyone...you just want us to quit "stealing" your oil. So I know you'll do the right thing now and just let me go." Meanwhile there's a guy we have captured who knows where you are being held but we're too civilized to do more than just ask politely where you are. While you are thinking about it remember that the man torturing you would have zero compunction about torturing anyone, man, woman, or child in the most horrific way as a means to an end.

Grow up. Civilization is made possible only because there are those who will do a dirty job so the rest of us can dream of peace. We have the luxury of civilization because of them...without them we would be slaves to the most barbaric beasts. Kinda like those who lived under Saddam.

So you think South Americans are all just helpless innocent people without the wherewithall to devise methods of torture? I'm sorry, but people are people. We did not invent torture...and the rest of the world is not innocent or filled with hapless, helpless (perhaps stupid?) victims. Once again you take a covertly superior pose.

Scenario 2: You have reason to believe a person you have captured knows the exact plan for blowing up a nearby building. You know the attack is imminent. What would you do...say please?

Funny, As far as I know you haven't expressed "shame" at the policies that allowed your fellow Americans to be blown to bits on 911...or at similar attacks on Americans and others in other countries around the world. Does it bother you at all that all through the 90's your president did virtually nothing about that? Does that president share the blame for the policy to remove Saddam and does that shame you?

Frankly it shames me that roughly a third of Americans are lopsided and without principle in these matters. It's all a matter of politics.

Tina: "You are about to be beheaded at a torturously slow and agonizing pace, ..."

Oh, please. Must you? It's all that Fox News; it just inspires the most pointlessly sensational, inflammatory ...

When and if we ever get our hands on Mr. Z, we will put him on trial like a civilized nation should. Ask yourself how come we don't seem to be able to get are hands on him. Now there's a question.

Tina: "So you think South Americans are all just helpless innocent people without the wherewithall to devise methods of torture?"

Of course not. But this in no way mitigates or refutes the documented fact that legions of South American soldiers were taught torture at the College of the Americas. Nor does is address my point. We used to, at least, espouse the immorality of torture (whatever we got up to behind the world's back). It's a hypocritical postion, but it's better than nothing.

Tina: "Scenario 2: You have reason to believe a person you have captured knows the exact plan for blowing up a nearby building. You know the attack is imminent. What would you do...say please?"

Oh, you don't wanna go there. Cause all your "lefty conspiracy" types say that this is exactly what happened: that BushCo could have prevented, or at least interfered with, the hijackers on 9/11 ... but they didn't ... cause they needed a reason, a means to frighten us, and cow the Congress. And the 9/11 Report does support their position to a degree.

But I think it's a little too neat. Don't you?

And since when is torture "principled." What you seem to be suggesting is that we abandon our admittedly hypocritical position, and publicly embrace the depraved immorality that is torture. Well?

"Legions of South Americans"?...come on Libby isn't that "pointlessly sensational, inflammatory..."

Torture. I imagine it is very distasteful to most people, don't you? I can imagine worse things and have read about what others have done to our countrymen...a certain death march comes to mind.

Unfortunately, we live in a world that includes some very terrible things. I'm not a person who could easily clean up the carnage left on the road when a bad traffic accident occurs, but there are those who will. In the same manner there are those who are willing to defend innocent people or a cause such as freedom, even if it means they must harm others or must lose their own lives.

It sounds like you don't trust your own country. That is, of course, your right, but I think it a bit naive to hold the actions of a few as unforgivable evidence of rottenness to the core while placing others on a highly respected piller. Even the poor folk you mention in S.A. have been know to do despicable things for the cause. I can think of a few, murdered Christian nuns...selling people into slavery or as sex slaves...running drugs. We have the decency to feel some sense of shame at the behavior of our countrymen, I think the people we find ourselves in conflict with, more often than not, would be amused at that and think it stupid sentimentality.