POST SCRIPTS

Illegal Alliens from Latin America?

"Patriot prize" ?? Tsk. You know, they used to go on like that about the Irish, the Poles, the you-name-it. Will we never learn?

I wish you would think seriously about where all this fear comes from. You have noted that your fearless leader will not indulge you. Illegal immigration has always been a matter of supply and demand. Energetic furrin folk get themselves here and if there's work to do, they do it. They gut chickens and hoe trees and clean toilets ... because your children will not do this work. What's the beef?

I'll tell you what the beef is. "Real" jobs, nicely paying jobs, United Auto Worker jobs are also being taken off to third world countries.

So, if (Tina disapproves, but they are what they are) the Rich Folk can get the Poor Folk to clean their toilets and build their cars ... what's there for us here in the middle to do? Sink ... that's what ... sink.

I was hoping you would say they were all Irish, because if we could kid ourselves that they were, maybe we could have an honest discussion. But, because they are mostly of Hispanic surnames there is the race card thing or the poverty card and the they are doing jobs nobody else will card...which is pretty much just silly liberal talk.

Speaking for one who is for a strong border and controlled, fair and reasonable immigration I want to point out my two foster kids are hispanic and technically you can call me a farm laborer. Hey, I do nasty jobs all the time. I work hoeing and weeding and pruning...it's no big deal. So it's not a race thing or a problem with people who do the same job I do, it's a legal issue for me.

That's all, a l-e-g-a-l issue.

It's about folks filling out the immigration papers so we know who is applying. It's about learning to be a citizen so they can melt into our big melting pot. I think its valid that we know their criminal history and their health history, especially since 9-11.

We pretty much eliminated things like TB and diseases common to the 3rd world nations and now we've got em in the US again thanks to millions of illegals.

The war on drugs was hard enough without a whole bunch of illegals engaging in the drug trade and abusing our pourus borders.

Mexican mafias were never in California until recently and thanks to illegals. Some of my friends have been hurt and killed by them, even up here in Northern California.

Mexican gangs were unheard of up this way 30 years ago, now it's common thanks to illegals. So are the drive-bys and knifings..illegals.

About 30% of our prison population are illegal hispanics.

We never had the citizens of San Diego boo an Amercan soccer team and cheer for Mexico until recently, I guess this is due to, too many Hispanics, illegals mostly, who have no love for their host country and they resent the rest of us who are legal Americans.

Welcome to a changing world thanks to those wonderful people left of center who are denying we have a problem. Denial is not helping, denial is not a solution, it's just avoiding a growing problem and the longer we stay in denial, the worse it will get.

"Real" jobs, nicely paying jobs, United Auto Worker jobs are also being taken off to third world countries.

You won't like this either Libby, but, what else is new?

Those jobs left the country because "greedy auto workers" kept demanding more and more and more for the same work. Emerging countries like Japan were able to compete with the big US automakers and win because they weren't as labor constrained. To compete again the auto companies went where they could cut labor costs. Those greedy auto workers "demanded" themselves out of a job after riding a very nice gravey train for years.

Now the demopcrats are hurting...all those dem voting auto workers are no longer hangin out in the union halls...and the coffers are dwindling...solution?...bring in lots of illegals, make them legal...and get them unionized!! Install them in union halls where they will be brainwashed into the socialist thug ways and voila...you have voters that donate...a winning combo...lots and lots of new little pull toy voters.

And yes Libby it is simply awful...those terrible rich folks are just rotten enough to offer a job to someone who wants one. That's a really terrible thing to do...sinful really...to offer someone a job rather than a permanent ticket in the poverty pits of the welfare for life system.

Not that your smug self would care...my grandmother...immigrant from Germany...worked as a hairdresser for the wealthy so that she could raise her son after losing her husband of only a few years to that flu in 1918...my mom was a meat wrapper and my dad a machinist. My extended family members include American Indians, Mexicans, and blacks...Germans, English and French. We're just muts really, muts that worked hard and behaved responsibly in the community.

As Ronald Reagan used to say, "You folks know so much that just isn't true." You have no idea what it is to be conservative...all you have are your small petty and smug perceptions and beliefs.

I applaud true human compassion in anyone. I resent being thought of as lacking in compassion because I disagree with liberals about how that compassion is expressed. I doubly resent liberals for wanting to take from me to show their compassion...I think the gesture would be more sincere and more heartfelt if it were given from the resources of the individual. I also think it does ore lasting good when it comes to the person in need in a personal rather than an institutional form.

And Jack...nicely said.

Libby, my children, and we have already determined that there are a few who do these jobs, I have done these jobs. It is not conservatives who have made it more profitable, not to work. Or taken away the stigma attached to not working.

Again you parrot the rhetoric of the left. You know, when we make the illegal’s who are here now, legal, the left will demand that they be paid at least minimum wage, won't that open up a demand for even more to come over and work for less pay? How about offering these "Jobs no one will do anymore," to the able bodied collecting welfare?" With the stipulation, you can refuse, but the benefits will cease.. Oh, and by the way, I am from a law enforcement background, sending back the illegal’s who are here is not impossible, it would be hard, and I know, no one on the left is about having to do anything “hard”, but it is the thing we should do.

As far as losing jobs to third world countries, I remember the League where I worked, basically the same as a union, always backed the democrat in politics. Most of the membership complained about this and it wasn't until the end of my career, that legislation was changed allowing a member to direct the union, or league in my case, not to spend his or her dues on political campaigns that heor she did not support. During the occasions when we would have membership meetings, and complain, the league’s response was always, "I know they don't back us in our jobs, but we do better financially with the democrats." In other words, more pay raises came our way. Our response was that if we weren't taxed at 25 + %, we could live on the wage we made. I have benefited from having a league or union at work, and I see the need in some instances for Union or league oversight. In my job we once went four years without a contract, and when we got one it was a multiple year, the first year we got 0%. But by the same token, Unions and Leagues have to work in partnership with employers who are otherwise treating employees well. Things do not occur in a vacuum. If the company is not doing well, the union can not keep expecting raises. The unions also have to be more receptive to the company's needs in terminating a substandard employee. I have seen instances where it is so labor intensive to document an incompetent employee, that supervisors just throw their hands up and ignore the problem. But until a substantial segment of our society is able to look at these issues with some common sense, and not look at bosses as evil unlimited sources of revenue, we will continue to see jobs leave our country.

Just getting some of Libby's insights, that's prize enough. I can't believe he/she doesn't charge us for the tremendous opportunity and pure pleasure presented to us with his/hers obvious superior intellect and charm. I have seen the error of my ways and I only have this to say,"Clinton in 08"!!! OMG I think I broke my keyboard.
I have a question and I am sure I am the first one to ask it. I am sorry if any of you good people are eating while reading this but it needs to be asked.
First off, we all know how highly the Clinton's hold family values and traditions, my question is about traditions. When Hillary takes the oval office, will she be giving or receiving, you know, catching or pitching, in the great Clinton tradition? 1,2...3, yep there it is, good luck getting that image out of your head. You can just picture the interns sweating bullets over who the next sacrifice is going to be. That is one time you REALLY don't want to draw the short straw.
With the very real and very scary possibility of him/her (is anyone really sure?) winning, some tough and really disturbing questions need asking.

Tina, your point about the UAW is right on. It isn't only the auto workers, it's union jobs across the board that are heading overseas. That is why democrats in general and liberals specifically are so opposed to Walmart. Do not think for a minute, liberals care about the well being of Walmart employees or the people who shop at Walmart. If Walmart were a union outfit, they could run sweatshops out back of the stores and sell child porn, just as long as the union dues keeps rolling in. I would be willing to bet if Walmart went union, you would see two super Walmarts in every town in America. Are people unwilling or unable to grasp what liberalism is all about? It is understandable why people call us stupid Americans. They don't live here and yet they understand better in some ways than a lot of Americans do.

How about offering these "Jobs no one will do anymore," to the able bodied collecting welfare?" With the stipulation, you can refuse, but the benefits will cease..

Applause, applause, etc....

But until a substantial segment of our society is able to look at these issues with some common sense, and not look at bosses as evil unlimited sources of revenue, we will continue to see jobs leave our country.

Applause, applause, etc....

It isn't only the auto workers, it's union jobs across the board that are heading overseas. That is why democrats in general and liberals specifically are so opposed to Walmart. Do not think for a minute, liberals care about the well being of Walmart employees or the people who shop at Walmart. If Walmart were a union outfit, they could run sweatshops out back of the stores and sell child porn, just as long as the union dues keeps rolling in. I would be willing to bet if Walmart went union, you would see two super Walmarts in every town in America. Are people unwilling or unable to grasp what liberalism is all about? It is understandable why people call us stupid Americans. They don't live here and yet they understand better in some ways than a lot of Americans do.

Applause, applause, etc...

These remarks deserved repeating.

And before Libby, or someone for whom being in a union was just part of having a job objects let it be known. I have no animosity for most union members. I hate the system. It often operates on a criminal level and it treats all workers "equally" failing to give excellence its due through reward or incompetence it's due through firing. The rules governing what a worker can and cannot do are often rediculous and costly forcing prices up for the consummer.

I almost missed this one:

So, if (Tina disapproves, but they are what they are) the Rich Folk can get the Poor Folk to clean their toilets and build their cars ... what's there for us here in the middle to do? Sink ... that's what ... sink.

Right Libby...the middle class is "sinking". Perhaps you haven't noticed that the unemployment rate has been holding steady at FULL for some time now...and wages have been increasing...you are such a big fibber...but, as we all know, liberals play the game in just this way.

One of my girls just walked in, she had been house cleaning for some other people...including the toilets. Amazingly she is not Hispanic!

Watch it Jack! In Libby's world, your daughter, taking jobs away from hard working illegal alliens, is the reason many of them are turning to crime when they get here! I mean what else can we expect?

I really am quite distressed that none of you seem willing to address the actual issue here. Why shouldn't Jack's daughter make a "union" wage for cleaning toilets? It's work that needs doing; why shouldn't she make a decent wage for doing it? And if there aren't enough "Jack's daughters", why shouldn't some so-and-so up from Guatamala make a decent wage for cleaning toilets?

And ... most definitely AND ... why cannot the so-and-so keep herself cleaning toilets in Guatamala?

If you think this has nothing to do with the corporate so-and-sos who will pay neither Jack's daughter, nor the so-and-so in Guatamala a decent wage ... you seriously need to think again.

We are all the same global peon now. You think on it.

Please define a "decent wage".

Why should a union, that takes zero risk and pays none of the bills decide what a job is worth to an employer?

She should make as much as she can get for the work...if the work doesn't pay enough she should find other work...if no one will do the work at the wage being offered the employer will up the wage until someone is willing to taske the job...the employer and the potential employee should decide...it's nobody's elses business.

If you think yourself a peon and don't like it do something about it and quit whining like a child...take some responsibility for your own life...that's what the so-and so's you hate so much did!

"She should make as much as she can get for the work...if the work doesn't pay enough she should find other work..."

And this is where the Guatamalan comes in ... because the toilets still have to be cleaned! And if Jack's daughter cannot keep herself, doing this, in a little rented house with her husband and her child ... then the Guatamalan will clean the toilets in a rented one-bedroom with six other illegals.

Are you never going to get it !!!!

Lordy, but I do wear myself out.

"And this is where the Guatemalan comes in ... because the toilets still have to be cleaned! And if Jack's daughter cannot keep herself, doing this, in a little rented house with her husband and her child ... then the Guatemalan will clean the toilets in a rented one-bedroom with six other illegals."

You're right Libby, I don't get it. Did you make a point? What was it? Am I to understand that only Jack's daughter and these “Guatemalans” are the only ones able to clean toilets? How many, able bodied US citizens are currently collecting an entitlement they do nothing for? Why can’t they be encouraged to take these jobs? I mean they can refuse, but the entitlement should stop when you refuse to work. I’m sorry Libby, I worked a lot of lousy jobs before I got the one I wanted. Life happened and I didn’t get to stay in the Job I wanted, as long as I wanted. But I work to support myself and family. And I work the jobs that are available for the wage that is offered. If the wage is too low for me, I look elsewhere.

And what happens when all of these toilet cleaning Guatemalans are here looking for their "Union Wage"? My guess is that there will be another wave of Illegal Aliens to take their place at a lower non-union wage and we will be left with 12 million unskilled- out of work "New Citizens" eligible for yet more government entitlement programs. Didn’t this already happen to us at least once, no, twice before?

I can understand how you would wear yourself out trying to rationally explain the upside of your position on this.

My sister tell me there is no point in this ... rubbing their little noses in it ... but John ... as you say ... you do not get it.

What is to be done? ... if you do (or will) not get it?

My sister tell me there is no point in this ... rubbing their little noses in it ... but John ... as you say ... you do not get it.

What is to be done? ... if you do (or will) not get it?

And this is where the Guatamalan comes in ... because the toilets still have to be cleaned! And if Jack's daughter cannot keep herself, doing this, in a little rented house with her husband and her child ... then the Guatamalan will clean the toilets in a rented one-bedroom with six other illegals.

And this is your business or concern because?

Libby, I had a young man apply for work at my business. He was working three jobs and going to Chico State for his EE degree, not an easy major, when we hired him. He didn't have student loans or a scholarship; he was just full of determination and he was willing to work hard for his future.

I have a friend from Cambodia. Came to this country with nothing and didn't speak the language. She and her husband worked hard to make a good life in America through sheer determination. She is one of the most grateful and joyful people I know.

Your toilet cleaning Guatamalan lady will work hard, spend wisely, live six families to a room and be glad for it because in America she has opportunity for advancement through her own efforts...she gets it!

I repeat, please define a "decent wage." Next tell me why you should decide what is decent for the Guatamalan woman...whatever she gets must be better than where she has come from...for her it is a place to begin. You, Libby, don't get it.

Maybe if you looked up from all that "nose rubbing" you might begin to have a clearer perspective.

Again, a non-answer from Libby! Libby you come in throwing bombs which never explode, and then run back into the night, the night which has become your friend, apparently satisfied that you have shown me, "if you have to explain, I wouldn't understand." Is that it?

How about if you can't explain, your idea has no merit. come on Libby, say something clever.

Again, a non-answer from Libby! Libby you come in throwing bombs which never explode, and then run back into the night, the night which has become your friend, apparently satisfied that you have shown me, "if you have to explain, I wouldn't understand." Is that it?

How about if you can't explain, your idea has no merit. come on Libby, say something clever.

the jobs are always been there..for everybody like a free candy for kids. but the employers aint going come knocking to your doorhouse to get a job.in this country nobody is taking jobs from nobody.were just taking what people don't want.finally jobs are out there for everybody,who really wants to work..

c,w,construction usin illegal people in the company in the corner market and thirt stret in riverside