"FO" is shorthand for,"You have won this argument, I have nothing for a rejoinder, but I wanted the last word."

Quentin I'm well aware of that and I thank you for your concern. However, the expression isn't always shorthand for "you have won this argument," sometimes genuine disgust is the only motivator. In this case I have rebutted sufficiently on more than one occassion to demonstrate that I indeed have an argument and evidence to back up whatever point is being made.

I think I have been, for the most part, patient in my willingness to play the sparring game with Libby. I have tirelessly done research showing respect for her participation and POV. I have been tenacious about exploring imaginitive ways to reply to Libby who can be quite entertaining and colorful herself.

"Buzz off" would have been more in keeping with my ethical standard and the standard I expect from all of you. Either way the three occassions where I used this expletive were definitely just an expression of how tiresome, repetitive, and smug (without substance) I think Miss L can be at times.

My appologies to our readers if there was any offense; I will also accept applause from any who wish to offer it.

That statement by Jesse Jackson is not OK, and definitely racist. I am sick of him and Sharpton making the rest of us anti-racist activists look bad.

Personally, I have no interest in a "color-blind" society; being uninformed about the historical and social context that makes up race relations in this country is unwise, and may never be possible or desirable.

K I'm curious, how did you get the idea that "color blind society" means being uninformed or ignorant about the "cultural and social context" of race relations?

Because too often I see the "color-blind" defense used when someone has accidentally (or sometimes intentionally) said or done something racist, but doesn't want to own up and apologize for it. Maybe this isn't how you mean the term, but to me "color-blind" has come to connote willful ignorance. To me, if you do have an understanding and respect for race relations, you can't be "color-blind." My research into the subject has made me more aware of race than ever. I suppose one day, in the far future, we may no longer need to be aware of our world's history of racial ineqaulity, and people can truly be "color-blind," but expecting that to happen while there are still people alive who remember Jim Crow strikes me as very naive. Heck, expecting it to happen in the lifetimes of people born shortly before Obama's election seems like expecting too much to me. It takes many generations to fully undo the damage a culture goes through when groups of people are arbitrarily treated as less than other groups. Old habits die hard, and racism is the oldest habit there is.

"Old habits die hard, and racism is the oldest habit there is."

I would agree. I also imagine that discrimination, in one form or another, will always be with us.

Jesse Jackson's invective demonstrates that racism is often about attitudes rather than skin color. Which indicates what I mean when I use the term "color blind".

There are a couple of men of color in my neighborhood. One works in a pharmacy that I frequent and another owns a sandwhich shop. When we talk of course my mind takes in the color of their skin and I'm sure it is the same for them. But both have an openness and confidence about them that is welcoming and friendly so we have become quite friendly. Both men have been in the military and I wonder how much of a factor that palys in their confidence to speak to and joke with whites. On the other hand, I recently encountered a woman in a doctors office that if looks could kill she would have when I met her eyes and smiled a greeting as she entered the office. I admit I'm assuming here, but it would seem that what she saw was a white woman and her attitude was immediately defensive and negative...even hateful. Her response was not a "color blind" response. I had done nothing but smile...I didn't speak or sigh or do anything that would indicate hostility or hatred. I suspect her attitude has been learned and it's unfortunate. I see no reason to respect her as I do the other two men...yet PC asks me to. That just isn't right by any standard of decency.

It is time to begin to address this problem in terms of attitude rather than color. We should be as intolerant of Jesse Jackson's desire to punish and oppress white people as we are owhen whites show disrespect. People of color are not being oppressed or denied entrance into main stream America. They have stepped out and many have become very successful. When we are willing to be "color blind" evaluating and treating all people with the same yardstick, measuring faults as well as accomplishment, we will go a long way toward being a nation undivided.

"Both men have been in the military and I wonder how much of a factor that palys in their confidence to speak to and joke with whites."

Interesting point. I'd say, probably a lot.

"On the other hand, I recently encountered a woman in a doctors office that if looks could kill she would have when I met her eyes and smiled a greeting as she entered the office. I admit I'm assuming here, but it would seem that what she saw was a white woman and her attitude was immediately defensive and negative...even hateful. Her response was not a "color blind" response. I had done nothing but smile...I didn't speak or sigh or do anything that would indicate hostility or hatred. I suspect her attitude has been learned and it's unfortunate. I see no reason to respect her as I do the other two men...yet PC asks me to. That just isn't right by any standard of decency."

I don't think political correctness means that you have to be polite to this woman who was rude to you, but I can see why you might have gotten that message from some segments. All I can say is that personally, I think that woman's behavior was unjustified, and you are under no obligation to treat her any better than she treated you.

"People of color are not being oppressed or denied entrance into main stream America."

Here is where I must disagree. Legally, you are right, but socially, I still feel that minorities are being marginalized and "denied entrance." Remember the example I gave a couple weeks back about the upcoming "Last Airbender" movie, and how all of the Asian characters were cast as white people? "Liberal" Hollywood has a long-running history of this. The movie "21" also transformed Asians into Caucasians, and that movie was based on actual Asian people. This happens all the time to people of other races, too. It is also an area where the "color-blind" excuse is used all the time. The producers always say that they didn't think about race, and simply cast the best actors available. I don't think it's any coincidence that the "best actors" always seem to be white. This is why, in my mind, the phrase "color-blindness" as it is most commonly used seems to merely an excuse to be racially insensitive while perpetuating the habit of "defaulting" whiteness as the norm.

While POC do have much greater access in this society than ever before, and are even given controversial "extra help" measures like affirmative action, many segments of our media and society are still not giving them equal representation. That is why I find "color-blindness" to be an unhelpful term, even when you explain it in a way that makes sense and seems positive.

I will say that whatever your terminology, your attitude towards race seems mostly positive to me, even if we disagree on the details.

"Here is where I must disagree. Legally, you are right, but socially, I still feel that minorities are being marginalized and 'denied entrance.'"

I agree about Hollywood...they were incredibly late to the party but in an era when POC are producing, directing and starring in their own movies it's pretty safe to say they have arrived and in the best possible way. They ahve taken the initiative upon themselves to succeed, excell and compete. The same thing needs to happen at all societal levels. The doors are open but they have to step through and begin to participate. They don't need white people to accept them, include them, or give them permission. None of us will ever be loved and accepted by everyone. Maybe your perseption and mine are so very different simply because your perspective began only 20 (?) years ago. I have witnessed big changes. I think talk that places extra importance on the past discrimination will perpetuate old standards but talk that acknowledges the arrival, the flourishing and growth of POC will generate more of the same. If you teach a child he can be whatever he wants with hard work and clean living, and if you teach him to rise above unkind words, and if you act with confidence yourself, your child will emulate you. If you teach them that they are oppressed and that others hate them and will keep them down, and if you have a lot of resentment yourself, you will pass that belief system on to your child. Attitude is something society cannot address. People have to take care of that on their own. The only thing standing in the way of any American is the limitations they place on themselves.

"...many segments of our media and society are still not giving them equal representation."

Like where? And since when is "access" something that is awarded (given) rather than earned?

"...whatever your terminology, your attitude towards race seems mostly positive to me, even if we disagree on the details."

Thank you. I'd say the same about you. You didn't comment on my explanation of "color blind"..that it isn't about not seeing color but is an attitude of being open and judging and relating to all people in the same way and by the same yardstick. That was the dream, MLK envisioned.

Interesting points Jack. I've learned that we all share the same DNA. What I find fascinating is the idea that we came from the black race. In reality we have no way of knowing what the original people looked like in terms of color and characteristics do we? There are several definitions of race so it's hard to even talk about that with clarity. For me it's enough to know the DNA is the same...brothers and sisters as they say.