POST SCRIPTS

Why are you angry with a person who doesn't want your son to die?

Lisa,

If I truly felt that was the person's concern, I would not have been angered. This person is against the war, he has said things that embolden the enemy in this war and said what he said as a dig. I felt it was way over the line. If this person had any concern for my son, or the thousands of sons and daughters fighting in this war, voluntarily, he might give them credit for doing something that they feel is the right thing to do.

Instead, he assumes that my son is misinformed and has no idea of what he is risking, but just blindly following, no thinking involved. My son has been to Iraq three times, he has seen first hand the fight of the Iraqi people, and the actions of the terrorist we are fighting there. He has lost friends and associates. He knows what the risks are, so does his family. To his credit, he accepts them. More than that, he understands what is at stake if we do not fight this war.

The person I wrote about has shown me numerous times that he feels that anyone who supports this mission is an idiot. By making the statement, he inferred that I support the mission, because my son hasn’t been killed. If my principals were so shallowly founded, he feels that if God forbid, something were to happen, I would immediately betray my son’s sacrifice and turn against this war. It is hard to send a son or a daughter to war, it is something I certainly don't take lightly, but like my son, I feel this war is necessary for the security of our country.

Reasonable people can disagree, but it takes two or more reasonable people for that to occur. In my opinion, this person is not reasonable and he showed his arrogance by making the statement.

I hope this makes it a little clearer, thank you for asking.

If I may add this to what John has said so well:

I know his son too, he's like my own son. I've watched him grow up and we talked about many things. I watched him join the military, get married, have children and rise through the ranks much faster than other soldiers.

We've always discussed politics (and we do not always agree, but mostly we do), we've discussed religion (and again we did not always agree, but mostly we do) and we have talked about so many other things in life from ethics to business. I know how he thinks and how he considers each subject.

John's son was and is a true thinker. To his credit, he's read more topical books to form his opinions than almost any else I know.

On the subject of Iraq, as a soldier, being there three times and living there for many months at a time, dealing with ordinary Iraqi's and extraordinary ones too, he has a highly informed personal opinion as a direct witness of events that will survive us all in history yet to be written.

Like the blind man parable, each of us sees only a little bit of the elephant and this young man has seen more of the elephant than the sum of us.

Therefore, I would not insult his opinion by trying to trump it or undermine it with my own opinion; instead I think it would better try to learn from him and perhaps share some thoughts. In that way we would both come away wiser.

This is not to say our opinions compared to his are worthless, not at all. We all know what we know by our own unique experience and that is valuable. And given enough of those fractional points of view... at some point we will collectively have the whole picture! You might conclude then it takes a real team effort to see the whole elephant through blind eyes.

I understand.
It isn't what the person said, it is your opinion of him/her that causes your anger. You should never infer another's intentions--that is how wars start. I hope you meet with this person and find out what he/she is really thinking.
It is what Jesus would do.

Lisa,

I have read enough of this person's comments to have a very good handle on his inference.

It is hard for me to separate a person from his actions, my opinion of this person has been based on interaction with him and the reading of many things he has written, which he portrays as his potions on these issues.

With the person I wrote about, we could parse down and analyze all the reasons, I took great offense to what he said, but in the end, it seems pretty black and white to me. If you feel I have not justified my position on this, then like I said, reasonable people can agree to disagree, and so far, you seem pretty reasonable to me.

As to meeting with the person, time will tell.

Lisa, your comments obviously come from a very big heart, however this:

You should never infer another's intentions--that is how wars start.

is pure psyco-babble. Wars do not start because of misunderstanding. Hitler was not misunderstood.

Wars start when leaders become tyranical and oppress their own people or agress against their neighbors. When their acts become intolerable freedom loving people who value human life and human dignity step foreward to defend and protect what they value.

A soldier who defends in this way offers the greatest gift that man can give:

John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. (some versions say brother)

Also, I believe that anyone who fails to develope the ability to discern the intent of others is setting himself up to be a victim. That doesn't mean a person should make things up in his mind but it does mean that, over time and given enough exchange, he should be able to sense what another is communicating and from what position.

John clearly named the emailer as a "self-described liberal" and stated that they had communicated on other occassions.

The person I wrote about has shown me numerous times that he feels that anyone who supports this mission is an idiot.

John was assuming nothing but rather was responding with passion to defend himself and his family against a personal attack by someone he had come to know:

This person is against the war, he has said things that embolden the enemy in this war...

Knowing this I think his reaction to:

“I pray that it doesn’t take your Son’s death (name ommitted) to realize how pointless this war is.”

was, if nothing else, a natural sense of indignation which the dictionary defines as:

anger arroused by something unjust, mean or unworthy.

Not responding to such an attack would imply agreement or acceptance. The perfect "tail between your legs" response of someone who is a victim or needs to be liked by everyone.

Why, Lisa, are you not concerned about how John and his son were treated by this emailer? I would think that your heartfelt sensitivity would include being offended by the hateful button pushing barb that this email represents.

Thank you Tina,

I also had a response to Lisa which included Chambelin meeting with Hitler. That meeting did not have the desired effect, nor did it do anything other than embolden and legitimize a ruthless madman. I thought I might be going over the top. I also don't know Lisa, and was wondering if she might actually be the original emailer I was referring to, writing under another name. At any rate, my intention was not to direct my anger over the event to anyone else, but the opinions expressed by the emailer, I referred to, have been expressed by other self professed liberals, some of which are in high political office, who seem to believe the people in the military are there because of some deficiency in their intellect, this is a gross misconception.

self professed liberals, some of which are in high political office, who seem to believe the people in the military are there because of some deficiency in their intellect, this is a gross misconception.

My response to this brand of liberal:

Please explain your condescending point of view...you say you pride yourself on being the inclusive type. Bigotry is also supposedly not your style. I guess it's all a phony-balogna act, huh?

The military is a mirror image of America with quite a few highly educated people and less educated people. Some with great intellectual askills and others with incredible skills of other types...a mixed bag.

I have one son who isn't highly educated and never really liked school but he's a natural mechanical genius with that German sense of perfection and precision. He is amazing. I'd choose him to be in my camp any day.

People should be honored for what they bring to life whatever it is. As a doctor said to me once, "what would make you scream and hollar faster...if the doctors went away or the garbage pick up guys? He had a point.

Who's to say that anyone has greater value than another...God maybe, and I doubt he looks at people that way.

You people are really angry.
Anger is a secondary emotion. When people get angry, it is because they are scared.
What are you all afraid of?
How can you be pro-war and quote the Bible? Jesus taught peace.

Lisa, I didn't quote Jesus, you did, So I am surprised you went there. Is it that you feel I am hanging on to my religion and guns out of fear?

Romans 13 1-7 Citizenship, respect for authority:
Jesus also said that the main purpose of authority is to protect its citizens. He said that the authority does not carry a sword in vain.
He also talked about the respect of that authority, in my estimation, our military deserves that respect.

In other words if you violate the law of the land, you are subject to its penalties.

In our world, that authority is local police, federal law enforcement and yes, the military.

If I am afraid of something, it is that the sacrifice made on mine and your behalf, on the part of the military, will be ignored. We will not bring the terrorist we are fighting to bear for their crimes against the citizenry of America, and we will end up with this fight here, where untrained, non-combatant Americans, such as you will be targeted.

Now, why Iraq? there were a whole host of reasons to go to Iraq, not the least of which was WMD's. Saddam had violated the cease fire agreement he signed at the end of the first Gulf War! (A violation of law, and a justification, on its own, to re-commence aggression against him.)

He failed to abide by the numerous UN sanctions, and as it turned out was involved in some behind closed door dealings with both France and Germany.

This is not one of the many justifications for the war, because as far as I know, it wasn't commonly known at the time we went in. (But also a violation of Law)

And these are not even taking into account the numerous crimes against his people!

There are those who said Al Queda was not in Iraq until we went there. Well, they are there now, they are trying to undermine the will of the newly free Iraqi people, they are our Identified enemy in the war on terror. Do you suggest that we leave? Will that make them go away from Iraq? will that end the acts of terror committed by these terrorist around the world?

Explain to me how?

And I do believe God can change them, and I pray for that everyday. But I don't believe we are supposed to stand by and let evil occur.

Romans 13 8
In the bible there are something like 15 separate justifications for war, this war met 7.
These are in the New Testament, not the old. This war is not to expand our land, like has been inferred in the media and other places.

In the case of a nation being attacked, pacifism is not a Christian Option.

Lisa thank you for hanging in with us to continue this conversation. It's instructional and important for people to come to a better understanding about personal motivations and positions.

You people are really angry.
Anger is a secondary emotion. When people get angry, it is because they are scared.
What are you all afraid of?
How can you be pro-war and quote the Bible? Jesus taught peace.

You assume a lot about the people who write to this blog. Speaking passionately about things that bother us is quite human. Anger is one of the emotions we were given...secondary? More psyco-Babble? Who taught you that? It's an emotion...period. It has value. The trick is learning to deal with it in a mature fashion.

If you go back and read John's original post you will see that he was holding himself in restraint with typical male humor and self deprecation:

I was so livid on reading this comment that though I am law abiding, I felt physically attacked. I fear that my response would have resulted in the writer calling on someone else with the fortitude he doesn’t possess to come and arrest me. I am far enough away from the incident now, however, to realize that the writer would probably not have the fortitude to tell a military parent this in person. But I have no doubt he would not take any responsibility for the reaction such a comment might incite, just like he fails to take resposibility for the result of his comments in emboldening our enemies.

This is anger expressed by a mature person...not a child...and definately not an uptight PC person who has been bullied into stuffing this very NORMAL emotion. Often people who have been bullied in this way use that stuffed fear to present themselves as fair and friendly and nice...to keep conflict at bay. See I can play the psyco-Babble game too!

What I fear is the destruction of our freedoms and our Constitutional republic. The country is being eroded from within and threateded from without and you haven't apparently even noticed...that alone is pretty scarey. What I fear is what the result of an incredibly ignorant and imature populace will mean for this country...the third world looms large if we do not properly educate and train our children.

I quoted the Bible because you said, "It is what Jesus would do."

The verse I used made a salient point...that we should be mindful (according to Jesus) that giving ones life for the sake of another is the highest expression of love...this is the gift of the soldier.

I quoted the Bible because people who condemn the efforts made by soldiers acting in defense of freedom and life should be honoring and respecting them and what they are willing to sacrifice for the sake of others...not making snide remarks about their sacrifice.

I repeat...why are you not offended by the emailer?

I think you mistake my passionate defense of these incredible people for anger...I am not angry, I am committed to bringing another perspective to the table.

Lisa, I'm by no means a Bible scholar, but I do remember this much...

The Bible says, during the days of Passover moneychangers were taking advantage of pilgrims. When Jesus saw this he was outraged at the injustice. He made a whip of cords and drove the moneychangers out of the Temple and said "Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!"

Jesus resorted to further violence as he personally destroyed their records and overturned furniture.

This was no small thing because these people were powerful enemies.

Matthew 21:12 "And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,"

So to say Jesus was non-violent is not a true statement. He was basically, but he had his limits of tolerance too!

I am not offended by the emailer because the only thing they have written is their prayer for Mr. Freitas' son. Everything else is assumptions on the part of the reader. You have only told me what you think are the emailer's intentions. I have spent too much money on my education to form an opinion based only on hearsay from one side of an issue.
Anger is so much more than an emotion. It is based on fear. That is not psychobabble, that is a fact.
I guess that Mr. Freitas is afraid is son will die over there. That is natural. He may also be afraid that he will be blamed for it because of his support of the war.
When my dad was killed over there, I blamed everybody who thought this war was a good idea.
I still do.
If you want to talk about Jesus, remember that He taught us to love our enemies. It is hard for me to do, but I am trying to love you.

Lisa,

I am sorry about the loss of your Father.

I do not know the circumstances of your loss, if you do not want to comment, forgive my question. Did he support the war, when he went?

I have lost many friends violently; I was a policeman in a large American city. How they died was often the result of an incredibly unnecessary act on the part of the killer. Yet they died in the service to others, going after armed criminals; they accepted that responsibility and that sacrifice is honorable. Thankfully, the majority of the time, it works out in our favor, but the fact that it might not, didn’t deter them or me from doing what we were paid to do. Was I sometimes afraid, heck yeah! Should I have quit doing the things I hired on to do, because it was sometimes scary? I wouldn’t have much respect for a person like that, would you?

You tell me not to assume, yet you assume a lot about me.

The Bible is the rule and guide to life, Jesus said many things about life, to take one edict and use it to define the entire Bible does not bespeak of a high price education.

Because of your assumptions about me, you miss the point of the entire post, which is part of what I wrote about. Perhaps as the result of your education, you feel you know better than I, how I should feel about something in my life. At any rate, I don't ask you to hate the writer; I ask that you be thoughtful about what you say about people who have VOLUNTEERED in this war.

Again, I am very proud of my Son's service and his dedication. Do I fear for his safety? Sure, he is in harms way. Someone who says they don't fear for the safety of people being shot at, is either a liar or an idiot. Will I turn against everything that he and I believe in, if something happens to him? Well as I said, I have known the pain of losing someone who died in the service to others. I didn't quit the fight because it got dangerous, or too real, I didn't betray my oath, I won't betray them and I wouldn't betray my Son.

Would I feel responsible because of my support for the war? I feel responsible for him, because he is my Son. My Son has chosen to be a Soldier for his profession. I had a part in raising him. He is a very strong Christian man. He is not a sit on the sidelines kind of guy. He is a man of action. You infere it would change my opinion of the war, the same inference the writer made, which precipitated my post! Kind of ironic huh, you apparently aren't afraid of starting a war anymore. The answer is NO, I do not come to my support of the war lightly, nor would I ever support sending ANYONE in to harms way, over a shallowly based belief.

There are times when violence is necessary. Soldiers, above all others pray for peace, because they are the ones who bear the burden of war. When I was a cop, I would rather talk someone to jail, than fight them. But there are times when talk does not work, this is one of those times. If you had a madman come into your house, kill a family member and then attack you, do you want a policeman to come and say, “I can’t stop him without using violence, so I’m outta here”? Is that also what Jesus would do? I’m sorry; I can’t reconcile that with the Bible.

You have still not supported your contention that anger is a secondary emotion to fear. You just claim it as fact. To say a person has fear, is about as rudimentary as saying a person has skin. There are a lot of things to fear in this life, I’m married and I have children and bills, am I to understand that you have no fear? Your view is based strictly on intellect, while mine is based on my fears?

“I pray that it doesn’t take your Son’s death (name ommitted) to realize how pointless this war is.”

Lisa you have a valid point. The remark was stated as if the person had prayed the sentiment.

However, we don't know if that is really the case or not...perhaps it was used as a figure of speech. In any case the prayer wasn't for the protection or safe return of the soldier. It wasn't offered as comfort to a father whose son is working under dangerous conditions...but rather it is a prayer for a bolt of lightening to strike so nthat Mr.Freitas will discover how wrong the war is (and perhaps how stupid John Freitas is?).

I'm afraid the emailers intent is more likely meant as a jab. I cannot read the heart of the person and I have no interest in being right in the matter. I am free, as we all are, to speculate and form an opinion.

I think you are naive if you refuse to even consider that his words may have come from a black heart.

Fear, like anger, is also quite human and natural and again the trick is learning to handle fear wisely.

The psyco-Babble I speak of is that it isn't wise to avoid or eschew conflict, anger, or fear. Part of the maturing process is to learn to have these natural emotions and, with integrity, choose to do the right thing even if it's difficult or frightening. None of us knows when we might find ourselves in such a position. Choosing not to smash in the face someone who has incited anger and instead expressing your anger in words is one way to do that responsibly. John Freitas did that.

You expressed an opinion about the motivations of Mr. Freitas:

He may also be afraid that he will be blamed for it because of his support of the war.

Aren't you doing what you accused Mr. Freitas of doing with the emailer? Aren't you motivated by anger (stuffed anger, perhaps)...because your dad died and Mr. Freitas supports the war. You said this yourself...and it's good that you talk express yourself about it.

When my dad was killed over there, I blamed everybody who thought this war was a good idea.
I still do.

I hope one day you will mature to the point that you will be proud of your father's gift to all people in the world. Those of us who support the war do so because we hate evil and we think that oppression and terror waged against people are terrible, intolerable things...things worth dying to defend against. Your father, whether he knew it or not, sacrificed his own life so that others might have a better life...isn't that a mirror of what Jesus did?

Something must be said also for the sacrifice you and your family have made for our nation and for the poor people in the Middle East who just wish to live a normal life seeking whatever to them constitutes life, liberty and happiness. My appreciation for your sacrifice, that of your father and your family, cannot be expressed in words. Just know that I thank God that there are men like your father willing to fight for good over evil even to the point of death.

One last thing. Yes, Jesus taught us to love our enemies. It may surprise you to know that I do. But I speak against them because of their behavior and I pray that their hearts and minds will be brought into the light. Aggressing in the name of Allah is a perversion to some of the Islamic faith. The people who practice a peaceful form of the religion have strict rules they follow..."not even to harm the smallest animal," is how one person stated it. They too should be free of oppression and the terrorists' threat. It takes two to live in peace, loving our brother as ourselves. Your father gave his life in an effort to make that possible for others, including Arabs and Muslims. God bless him, and God bless you, for that sacrifice.