Posted by Tina
The Daily Caller claims it was Jimmy Carter’s unemployed grandson who unearthed the Romney video causing a stir this morning:
Former Democratic President Jimmy Carter’s “looking for work” grandson, James Carter IV, is claiming credit for a leaked video of Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney dismissing voters loyal to President Barack Obama as people “dependent on government” who “will vote for the president no matter what.”
Mother Jones has the video; and transcript of the remarks:
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax. … [M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”
I’ve got to get to an appointment this morning so I don’t have time to comment further but you might enjoy the take over at National Review…I agree with them that Romney should own this video and double down. His remarks go to the heart of the path America is taking and it will destroy our country unless we begin to reverse the trend…a trend Obama embraces and feeds for his own power and pocket.
Yes, please, double down Romney. Because insulting almost half of the American people two months before the election is a brilliant campaign strategy, especially when many voters already see you as not caring about the poor and advocating a policy of Randian selfishness.
November can’t come fast enough.
Do you know why these people don’t pay taxes? Because President Reagan didn’t want them to:
“Families will get a long overdue tax break, and millions of poor will be dropped from the tax rolls altogether. It’s no exaggeration when I call tax reform simultaneously the best jobs creation bill, the best antipoverty legislation, and the best profamily legislation the U.S. Congress has ever produced.”
— President Reagan, November 15, 1986
Jim, thanks for bringing that up. Tax reform would indeed fight poverty and many other things too!
Imagine if none of us had to fill out those IRS forms or hire accountants every year to do our taxes? Imagine if their was some simple way that everyone would pay their fair share, wouldn’t that be great? Wouldn’t that reduce overhead, cut waste, streamline the revenue for government and allow more tax dollars to get to where they are supposed to be spent? -Jack
How was this not divisive politics, Tina? How was this not class warfare?
Oh, silly me, I forgot: it’s only class warfare if the rich are being targeted for criticism. If the poor are being targeted, it’s just common sense!
Walsh’s defense at the NRO is even more ignorant than Mitt’s comments. He writes:
“What he ought to do is step up and embrace the basic division in our nation, including the fact that nearly half the country pays no income taxes. Acknowledge it and then explain why, morally, this is not a good thing. Why having no skin in the game while at the same time demanding a say in the proceedings at the federal level is fundamentally undemocratic.”
Poor people “have no skin in the game?” Riiiiight.
Because it’s not like poor people have any reason to be concerned about the issues involved in this campaign, like healthcare, unemployment (everyone knows we don’t work anyway!), Medicare, affordable college, war, the economy, the social safety net…so we should have no “say” in our democracy.
I’d like Michael Walsh to live a week in my life and then say people like me “have no skin in the game.”
He goes on:
“One need not embrace the Starship Troopers ethos of Robert A. Heinlein to understand that in a democracy, everyone should pay something and that to confuse the issue of the (Progressive-era) 16th-amendment-sanctioned federal income taxes with Social Security (payroll) levies and state and local taxes is intellectually dishonest.”
This can’t be interpreted as anything other than a call to raise taxes on the poor. Wow.
If 47 percent of the people in this country are so poor they pay no income tax, we’s in big trouble. That’s positively third world, that is.
But then, if: “The richest 20 percent of the country pays more than half of income taxes for two simple reasons: America’s wealthiest 20 percent earns half the nation’s income and their income is taxed at a higher rate.” (The Atlantic.com)
Romney’s making a splendid case for some policy/tax reform that redistributes the nation’s wealth, though I doubt this was his intention. The man no deep thinker. In fact, it really sounds like his handlers copied stuff off this blog for him to feed back to you. Creepy.
I just want to point out that the 47% is based on people filing income tax returns. Of the returns filed, 47% don’t owe any income tax.
This can include people on unemployment, but it also includes elderly, retired people on Social Security and our armed service members who are in combat.
I don’t take what he says too seriously, he was pandering to a crowd that paid $50,000 each to be there and he said what they wanted to hear.
But coming from someone who refuses to release more than 2 years of tax returns, and who won’t say which tax loopholes or deductions he wants to get rid of to justify his tax cuts for higher earners this doesn’t make him look real good.
Personally I do not see what Romney has to offer this country. He is advocating for war in Iran which is insane. INSANE. They are not some tiny country like Afghanistan full of insurgents. Iran has one of the largest militaries in the world and if they were at war they would cut off the oil supply to the rest of the world. If you like $15 a gallon gasoline then war with Iran is a good idea.
I thought the whole point of the Tea Party was to wake up the Republican Party to the fact that their supporters don’t want more Republicans like George Bush. Romney’s foreign policy advisors worked for Bush. He is just more of the same.
At this point we need to focus down ballot and California, and our district has some races we need to pay attention to. And in Chico our city council could use an overhaul.
I would think probably Jimmy’s grandson is unemployed the way Mitt is unemployed. He’s got to be a trust fund baby.
And Princess … ain’t it scary? When you think about how well Iraq and Afghanistan have gone? You have to hope it’s just more pandering. But apparently Japan and China have been squabbling over some islands, and he says he’ll get military over that … and there was a third dispute somewhere … I can’t remember now.
But I’m thinking this is his big plan (which he has yet to actually explain at all) for dealing with the nation’s unemployed.
This may be the real kicker–a disproportionate amount of the “47%” who don’t pay income tax reside in red states:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/where-are-the-47-of-americans-who-pay-no-income-taxes/262499/
Way to insult your base, Romney!
If conservative economics are so great, why are Republican-led states so poor?
Princess “And in Chico our city council could use an overhaul.”
I completely agree. The Chico City Council has been taking our City is very much the wrong direction. However the blogger who was reporting and criticizing the City Council was banned from NorCal Blogs.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/09/18/cnbc_poll_75_agree_with_romneys_47_comments
Its at least as accurate as the polls the medai conduct when they weigh it down with democrat voters.
Leave it to the idiot Left to demonize the truth and any person who dares speak it.
The Tax Policy Center has more information on the 47%. According to them, 23% of Americans don’t pay income tax because they don’t make enough money (the threshold last year was $26,400 per year). 10% are elderly and don’t pay because of certain tax credits. 7% don’t pay due to benefits for the working poor and children, such as the Earned Income Tax Credit. 6% don’t pay due to other benefits.
But in Romney’s opinion, they are just an undifferentiated mass of lazy, irresponsible moochers.
We don’t need an anti-poor president.
We know you’d like it to be … faux. But I hear that video went viral within just a couple hours of posting … no media manipulation required.
And, from my liberal media, I got exposed to an aspect of the situation I had not considered. Answer me this: if the government gives monies to an indigent person for rent and food and the doctor bills, who’s the moocher? The indigent, or the landlord, market and doctor who have been presented with a paying customer?
“Faux” outrage? He called half of Americans irresponsible moochers who don’t “take care of their own lives!” And he said that it was specifically people who don’t pay income tax that he was talking about, i.e., the poor and elderly. Do you not understand why people would be genuinely outraged about that? I have never seen a presidential candidate insult such a wide swath of America this way. Ever.
Chris: “How was this not divisive politics, Tina? How was this not class warfare?”
Describing the terrible condition that our country has come to is not class warfare. Admitting that people who have been sold on the idea that government should take care of them, that this is the natural order, and that those people are most likely sold on Obama as well, isn’t class warfare. It is just a sorry truth! These remarks were not made to garner votes; they were made to acknowledge a probable reality, a reality his campaign must not ignore, in this election for Mr. Romney.
Selling the 47% on the Marxist principle, from each according to their means to each according to their need, and saying the rich should pay their “fair share” as if they did not already pay the largest share, is underhanded, disingenuous, and misleading…a big fat lie. But saying it to get votes is class warfare!
The upper 50% of wage earners pay 97% of federal taxes. Many of those also pay corporate taxes in their small businesses. Some of these also provide most of the jobs in this country through their investment and risk. They also pay taxes on investment and savings income.
Taxing these people more, many of whom are job creators, will only mean that even more people won’t be able to find work, especially work that pays well with a future! It means they will become dependent on government and over time will relent mentally and part of the so-called victim class. Government created this condition and Obama is claiming the it’s the fault of the wealthy. This is so slimy and despicable I can’t think of a word that is bad enough to describe it.
SPENDING IN WASHINGTON IS THE PROBLEM! CLASS ENVY ISN’T THE SOLUTION!
Even worse…government programs that Congress created are unsustainable! They will kill us all eventually. Entitlement numbers have grown from 23% in 1962 to 49% today!
If we don’t shift the thinking in this country those who are the most vulnerable among us will not have even their basic needs met…they will be crowded out by people who could work and have chosen not to work…people who take the easy, government will pay me to sit on my butt approach to life.
The recession officially ended in June 2009 according to the government. The long non-recovery recovery we’ve experienced since then has forced many people into early retirement, putting more pressure on unsustainable Medicare and Social Security programs. Since the great non-recovery recovery we now have approximately 48 Million people on food stamps. an incredible 5.4 million people are now on disability…many of them have applied for and gotten these benefits because they have given up looking for work and their unemployment benefits…extended to 90 months twice…have run out:
http://news.investors.com/business/042012-608418-ssdi-disability-rolls-skyrocket-under-obama.htm
That people will take what the government offers is just human nature.
Making law to encourage it, taking a political position to encourage it and benefit from it is unconscionable!
I won’t even bother to respond to the rest of your ignorant snide and self-interested remarks. You don’t seem to have the ability to look beyond your own interests to make a value judgement about what has failed and what would be best for everyone, including the truly needy.
This is serious at the most basic level both for our country and for the people and you clearly don’t see it that way.
Ah, but you can still check out the worldofjuanita or chicotaxpayers … where she, not having learned her lessons at all, is still astoundingly uncivil.
You just can’t be calling civic leaders nasty names, and then expect them to take you seriously when approached on policy issues.
Libby: “I would think probably Jimmy’s grandson is unemployed the way Mitt is unemployed. He’s got to be a trust fund baby.”
Jimmy’s grandson is most likely a trust fund baby. Mitt Romney gave what he inherited from his father to charity. he earned his wealth! Very few Americans would do such a thing! The guy deserves credit where it is due.
He is certainly no Kennedy…all of them boozy, absentee landlord trust fund babies…or Kerry…he married his wealth! Or how about Al Gore…a dirty oil and tobacco trust fund baby that has taken to selling green lies for peace prize applause.
Is anyone really stupid enough to believe that poll is truly representative of anything? We can’t get 75% of this country to agree on anything, but you’re going to believe they agree on this? Ugh. I am so tired of people playing dumb just because it suits their political agenda. At this point I think someone could tell you that Obama is a Cylon, and you’d rationalize some way believe it.
Chris: “a disproportionate amount of the “47%” who don’t pay income tax reside in red states”
This is bad but there is worse:
http://taxfoundation.org:81/article/states-vary-widely-number-tax-filers-no-income-tax-liability
Bush tax cuts. Yeah those Republicans are soooooo unreasonable and cruel!
http://www.numberof.net/number-of-americans-on-welfare/
A lot of those reside in very blue states: Over 1.2 million people are on welfare in California, Oregon has 55 thousand, Massachusetts 110 thousand, New jersey 94 thousand, Washington state 125 thousand. Blue states are among the worst off financially; some are in serious financial trouble and still cling to the big government solution.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562449457235503.html
Bottom line Barrack Obama is responsible for the long non-recovery that has a lot more people living in miserable conditions and putting downward pressure on the truly needy since more Americans are seeking assistance when they could be working. Obama does not have the answer because he is grounded in a failed system and he lacks experience other than community organizing.
Romney knows how to get people back to work, back to paying taxes and back to being contributing members of our society.
Libby: ” if the government gives monies to an indigent person for rent and food and the doctor bills, who’s the moocher? The indigent, or the landlord, market and doctor who have been presented with a paying customer?”
You are truly prepared to label a person who provides a service or good to the general public a “moocher” because an indigent person uses the same with public funds.
Lets see the grocer, the doctor and the landlord provide a valuable service or product, pays taxes, provides jobs and he’s the mooch?
Still trying to get liberal reasoning…we should elect politicians like Obama who believe people should be encouraged into dependence on government. They should be encouraged into massive debt for college. They should not be encouraged to work or pay taxes. Saving should also be discouraged so that they can’t climb out of their dependency and into the middle class even though it means they will never feel good about being contributing members of society and even though it probably means that their children and grandchildren will also be stuck in dependency. All of this should be US policy just so we can stick it to those we call moochers…those people who pay most of the taxes providing the money money for government programs while also supplying the populace with jobs, goods and services….I don’t know Libby…I just don’t get it. To borrow a phrase used on conservative talk today…sounds like a plan for circling the drain!
It would be wise to wise up. Not a single Republican or conservative person would deny the truly needy food, shelter, or clothing. In fact we pay our taxes and we give generously to charity. We don’t however think policies that break the fiscal bank and encourage people to be dependent and unproductive when they are capable is criminal and a really stupid way to run a country unless you want it run into the ground!
“Describing the terrible condition that our country has come to is not class warfare.”
But directly insulting the poor is. Again, Romney said that half of all Americans–specifically, the half that does not pay income taxes–believe that they are victims, are irresponsible, and do not take care of their own lives. That is not “describing a terrible condition.” That’s class warfare against the poor. Period.
It is not surprising that you refuse to admit this, as you are and always have been an elitist, dishonest partisan hypocrite who wouldn’t criticize a Republican candidate if one set you on fire.
Chris, I’m pretty sure you’re on to something here. It may come as a surprise, but I must agree with you. Yes, I think Romney IS waging war on the poor and that’s terrible.
He doesn’t like them, and we both know that, let’s face it. In fact, I’ll go you one better, I think he hates them! That’s right, and he doesn’t want to have the poor in the United States on day longer than is absolutely necessary!
Chris between you and me I think he’s out to change the poor to something else, because he thinks the poor are a drag on America! Romney wants all able bodied poor people of sound mind to go to work and earn a living for themselves… and dare I say it? yes, I dare…and he wants them to pay taxes!
This rich fat cat does not want the poor to live off the labors of others who work and produce. That’s terrible, where’s the free choice in that one? That’s forced labor, it’s oppression! It’s, it’s EMPLOYMENT!!!! OMG!
If the poor, who are able bodied and of sound mind don’t want to work, why should they? Who made up that rule? I’m with you, let’s share the wealth, don’t be greedy, that’s the ticket! That’s far better than employing millions of people who feel uncomfortable doing a days labor, right? We can’t have people working who don’t like working can we?
Yes, I’m with you Chris…you got your head on straight and you’re only thinking of what’s best for the little guy, the poor little guy, the poor little guy who doesn’t want to work, but could, that is, if he didn’t like staying home…on the couch, playing video games, or doing drugs and such. You’re looking out for him and I appreciate it!
THIS IS AMERICA, WE GOT RIGHTS!
The Constitution says we don’t have to work if we don’t feel like it and further, our taxes are there to take care of anybody who doesn’t want to work. That’s what taxes are for. Working is no fun, that’s why the Constitution says working people must promote the general welfare of non-workers!
Guys like Romney want to put too many people to work, living on a stupid salary…that’s the craziest think I ever heard! That’s mean and its greedy because that’s not sharing the wealth!
I sure hope you don’t plan on working…stop now while you’re being subsidized to go to college, don’t learn to become like those wascally republicans!
“You are truly prepared to label a person who provides a service or good to the general public a “moocher” because an indigent person uses the same with public funds.”
They is both nosed up to the public trough. The one no more, nor less, than the other. No honorable person would deny it.
So who is Romney talking about, him and his 47 percent?
This is what we’re going to spend the next seven weeks hammering on … just who do comprise this 47 percent? All them red-state SS, SDI recipients, we is gonna ram it right down their throats … so’s they abstain from the polls … for shame. Foolish people.
Chris I agree Romney could have chosen his words more carefully however he did not say they were “irresponsible, or that they “do not take care of their own lives”. Those are your words.
He did say they “believe” they are “victims”…believe government has a responsibility to care for them”…believe they are “entitled to government help, ie food stamps, housing, etc”
And they believe it because they have been told for decades that they are entitled to it. If you have this or that problem “you are entitled”…it is the language that is used.
Republicans have participated in passing the legislation acting in a “bipartisan” manner.
The Democrat Party has been the champion of big government solutions and spent decades convincing voters that this is governments purpose. They teach that “government” has the responsibility to take care of peoples needs! Some Democrats knew what would be the result and tried to at least clean up the mess…surprisingly Jimmy Carter was one of them:
Obama is the most vocal proponent of big government acting as big daddy. He openly says that redistribution of wealth is governments role his actions reflect his beliefs…and people cheer! These are the people who “believe” they are “entitled”. Pandering to these voters works for Obama. Is this not true?
A quote attributed to Lyndon B. Johnson upon the signing of the Medicare law:
Libby: “They is both nosed up to the public trough.”
Doctors, store keepers, providers are forced by law, not choice, to participate…hammer away. You will know you have won the the country is broke and we are all equally poor and destitute.
Chris: “I have never seen a presidential candidate insult such a wide swath of America this way.:
SURE YOU HAVE!
If you have a business…you didn’t build that!
…or how about defending raising taxes to “spread the wealth around”
Borrowing from another blogger at the American Thinker:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/02/spreading_the_wealth_around_gets_personal.html
Things have gotten out of hand and it is time to have an honest national conversation about it!
Jack you nailed it to the wall! I feel transformed!
Yes, government spending is the problem. So how about we stop spending so much on defense contractors? How about the new planes that are insanely over budget and it is too late to shut them down, we just have to pay more for less of them. Every corrupt scumbag on the Armed Services committee should be in jail right now. democrat or Republican.
Tina, you and Jack have both, “nailed it to the wall.” Loved too the comment from the other blog. His experience is just one of millions and his beliefs reflect those of conservatives who believe in small gov’t and personal responsibility.
OK, now I’m confused. What happened to the “latte-sipping, sushi-eating, limousine liberals?”
Jack: “If the poor, who are able bodied and of sound mind don’t want to work, why should they?”
Asshat, the vast majority of the poor DO work. The majority of those who are not currently working want to work, but can’t find decent employment. The working poor do not make enough to pay income taxes. Their wages are too low. Your comment was nonsensical; Romney didn’t even mention people not working, he was talking about the 47% of Americans who don’t pay income taxes. Do you really think 47% of Americans don’t work?
Tina: “Chris I agree Romney could have chosen his words more carefully however he did not say they were “irresponsible, or that they “do not take care of their own lives”. Those are your words.”
No, they were his words. You quoted them in your own article!
The last sentence of the Romney quote you cited in the article says:
“I’ll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”
That sentence literally only makes sense if he believes the 47% are irresponsible and don’t care for their lives.
“SURE YOU HAVE!
If you have a business…you didn’t build that!”
I meant a real insult, Tina, not something you have to take completely out of context and which has been debunked by every fact-checking agency in the U.S.
“…or how about defending raising taxes to “spread the wealth around”
That’s not an insult. Boy, you’re bad at this.
I have to thank Romney for his words. He has cemented the impression many already had of him of a classist, elitist snob. Having donors pay $50,000 a plate to hear him disparage the poor. It’s positively Dickensian.
Romney has done the Obama campaign a huge solid. He has laid bare the absolute sneering contempt that many conservatives’ have for those who are struggling to get by. Jack and Tina defend him because they share that same contempt. They believe the myth that poor people are simply lazy and don’t want to work. They are using the most vulnerable among us as scapegoats. It is disgusting, and it will not win you the day in November.
Chris, your lack of life experience is always catching up with what you think you know, but many liberals suffer from this. In your case we are betting that as you mature you will gain the life experience and the true wisdom that comes with it to balance out what you have been taught to think.
The poor don’t have the right to hold out for a high paying, prestigious job that suits them, they take what they can get. That’s life around the world, except for here. Here, those who are waiting around for the right job with a fat salary are coddled on generous welfare, this makes them dependent and beholding to big government, a perfect marriage.
Work of any sort even with low pay is honorable and productive. It serves a valuable higher cause of instilling work ethics and a desire to achieve more! I would rather see the unemployed poor working, doing something to help someone. Perhaps it could be a small business where they can only afford to pay minimum wage. So, we let the poor draw food stamps to make ends meet until they get a better job. This is far better than them doing nothing!
Not so long ago the great City state of Hong Kong has more people per square mile than anywhere else on earth and yet they had near zero unemployment. Everybody worked at something, they valued working, nobody expected a free ride. It was a cultural thing that seems to be lost on many Americans.
“Doctors, store keepers, providers are forced by law, not choice, to participate…hammer away. You will know you have won the the country is broke and we are all equally poor and destitute.”
You are so … so … not nice, and largely incorrect. No doctor is forced to take medicaid patients. No landlord is forced to go Section 8. Now the markets are required to accept food stamps, but they get full value … and what? … would you really have people go hungry?
Have you watched the video all the way through yet? You should. The full content exonerates Romney to a degree … and nails folk like you, his quite selfish and savage “base”.
Obama’s response is pitch perfect:
“When I won in 2008, 47 percent voted for John McCain; they didn’t vote for me. And what I said on election night was even though you didn’t vote for me, I hear your voices and I’m going to work as hard as I can to be your president.
“One of the things I learned as president is you represent the entire country. When I meet Republicans as I’m traveling around the country, they are hard-working, family people who care deeply about this country, and my expectation is that if you want to be president, you’ve got to work for everybody. Not just for some.
“The other thing you discover is, as you travel around the country, the American people, they work so hard. The progress we’ve made since the Great Recession, the progress we’ve made since the great recession is because you’ve got single moms out there who are working two, three jobs to help make sure their kids can go to college. And you’ve got small business owners who are keeping their doors open and keeping their employees on even though it means they may not be taking down a salary. And you go up to Detroit or Toledo and you see auto workers who take huge pride in the fact that they’re bouncing back. But they work hard. And you don’t meet anybody who doesn’t believe in the American dream and the fact that nobody’s entitled to success, that you’ve got to work hard, and so I promise you, there are not a lot of people out there who think they’re victims, there are not a lot of people who think that they’re entitled to something.
“What I think the majority of people, Democrats and Republicans, believe is that we’ve got some obligations to each other, and there’s nothing wrong with us giving each other a helping hand, so that if there’s that single mom’s kid, even after all the work she’s done, still can’t afford to go to college, for us to be able to give them, you know, some help on a student loan so they can end up being, curing the next disease or making sure that they’re starting the next Google, I think that’s a good investment for America, and that’s, if you want to be president and you want to bring people together, I think that’s the attitude that you’ve got to have.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fNUQQBE8iE&feature=player_embedded
Obama understands that those who are struggling are working hard. We are not irresponsible “victims” who just want freebies; we are doing the best we can. I want a president who understands that. I am glad to have that kind of president today, and I will be glad to have that kind of president for the next four years.
This thread has been illuminating, and I am curious if all commentators on Post Scripts believe that Romney was telling the truth.
Sean Morgan is running for city council and he is also a commentator here. In his Chamber statement he said there were two clear choices in this election. I was confused by the statement because there are 11 candidates running, but it makes sense if this is what he was referring to.
Maybe Sean can offer an elegant statement to clear up my confusion?
Jack: “The poor don’t have the right to hold out for a high paying, prestigious job that suits them, they take what they can get.”
Do you think most poor people are just sitting around waiting to get hired as CEOs? Most of us do “take what we can get.” The problem is that minimum wage is lower than it’s been since the 1960s, and many conservatives (including Tina) have advocated getting rid of minimum wage entirely! Instead of blaming welfare programs or the Great Society for growing poverty since the 60s, why not put the blame where it belongs? Work has not been incentivized, and the majority who do work are not being paid enough for their labor.
“That’s life around the world, except for here. Here, those who are waiting around for the right job with a fat salary are coddled on generous welfare, this makes them dependent and beholding to big government, a perfect marriage.”
This statement makes you look extraordinarily ignorant about the rest of the world, Jack. Most industrialized countries have much stronger social safety nets than the U.S. does. “Generous welfare” is more descriptive of a country like Sweden. I am underwhelmed by the horror.
Libby: “ou are so … so … not nice, and largely incorrect. No doctor is forced to take medicaid patients. No landlord is forced to go Section 8. Now the markets are required to accept food stamps, but they get full value … and what? … would you really have people go hungry?”
Nice try Libby. Docs are forced, if they take Medicare patients and how many docs went in to medicine to turn sick people away, to accept less for their services. Landlords (and others) are not forced to take section eight however they are required to pay taxes that allow section eight (cheaply built) housing at low cost. And that was my point…we are subject to the policies whether or not they work, are good for the people who use them, or offer the best solutions. PATHETIC reason to continue this EXPENSIVE, WASTEFUL, EXPERIMENT in SOCIALISM.
Selfish my great aunt Fannie! It has been researched and proven…REPUBLICANS give more generously in money donations and time to charitable causes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?_r=0
They also are conservative…which means they actually PAY their taxes unlike many in Obama’s government:
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/04/18/hey-how-about-administration-officials-pay-their-fair-share-of-taxes/
Makes sense given the support for Obama, even for his irresponsible and wasteful (shovel ready Solyndra) spending!
“Docs are forced, if they take Medicare patients and how many docs went in to medicine to turn sick people away, to accept less for their services.”
First, this sentence is a syntactic horror. I have no clear idea what you are trying to say. But if you are trying, again, to assert that a doctor in private practice is in any way forced by the government to accept a medicare or medicaid patient, you are wrong. You may, in fact, be quite willfully lying. I’m shocked.
Now, the acutely ill who turn up in emergency rooms, they have to be dealt with, and at medicaid rates. But, again, if your alternative is to let them expire in the waiting rooms, we ain’t having it.
We know you don’t like that your tax dollars are spent this way, but Tina … tough.
Libby: “First, this sentence is a syntactic horror.”
My apologies. I had one foot out the door when I wrote it. Try this:
Doctors are forced by law to accept less for their services if they accept medicare patients. Doctors do not go into considerable debt and spend years practicing medicine in order to turn patients away. Freedom has been diminished by this law. It has been taken from both the doctor and his patient if he decides he must turn the patient away for the good of his practice and other patients. If he chooses to accept the patient the freedom to determine the appropriate charge for his service has been lost. If he accepts the patient he must then run his practice on considerably less money which will mean seeing more patients in a day and giving each less time. it might mean firing some staff and working longer hours himself.
Still shocked? If so it wouldn’t surprise me. You lefties don’t have a clue when it comes to the real life consequences of your utopian dreams.
“…if your alternative is to let them expire in the waiting rooms, we ain’t having it.”
GET OFF IT LIBBY! Nobody has ever suggested death to the elderly as an alternative. Nobody has suggested eliminating Medicare for the elderly.
It has been suggested that Medicare be reformed since we ALL AGREE that medicare is flat broke and since WE ALL AGREE that the program isn’t working for doctors, hospitals, and patients.
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/01/mayo-clinic-refusing-medicare-patients.html
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/06/21/More-doctors-refusing-Medicare-patients/UPI-20241277133043/
There are better ways to handle our medical and insurance problems. Those who pretend it will fix itself or that MORE government intrusion will fix them are not doing the elderly or the young people that will have to pay high taxes to pay for it any favors.
“We know you don’t like that your tax dollars are spent this way…”
Actually you don’t know much of anything. You refuse to think. You refuse to admit that the policies we tried ARE NOT WORKING. You refuse to consider other options.
This LACK of thinking is moronic in the extreme.
Don’t like my saying so?
Tough!
Gracious, I even just remembered, back in those golden Reaganomic days, when I lived in Chico, there was only one doctor in the area, a woman in Paradise, who would accept Medicaid patients … and then she wouldn’t … and it made the paper. I remember.
But check this out. There may yet be hope for your candidate.
http://www.salon.com/writer/david_sirota/
Chris channeling Obama speaking to the 47% that didn’t vote for hope and change: ” I hear your voices and I’m going to work as hard as I can to be your president.”
He sounds so inclusive…so understanding…so ahhhhhhhh!
What has he done?
Passed health insurance that has created uncertainty about future costs and regulation that causes a lot more expense for business.
Raised taxes on certain products and services.
Waged war on oil and coal.
What has he said since those first “ahhhhhhh” days:
The rich are not paying their fair share.
Greedy corporate profits are the problem.
If you have a business…you didn’t build that…somebody else made that happen.
He’s out schmoozing on the campaign trail now acting all inclusive and glad handing for votes. (BARF)
Who cares what Obama says…watch what he does!
Tina
Tina: “He sounds so inclusive…so understanding…so ahhhhhhhh!
What has he done?
Passed health insurance that has created uncertainty about future costs and regulation that causes a lot more expense for business.”
Would you be talking about the healthcare law that reduces the deficit by $109 billion, prohibits insurance companies from discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions, and makes sure women over the age of 40 get mammograms at no direct cost?
“Raised taxes on certain products and services.”
He’s also lowered taxes on most middle class families and provided numerous tax credits for small businesses.
“Waged war on oil and coal.”
That simply has no basis in reality. Oil production has increased under Obama.
“What has he said since those first “ahhhhhhh” days:
The rich are not paying their fair share.
Greedy corporate profits are the problem.”
He was right to say these things. They are true.
“If you have a business…you didn’t build that…somebody else made that happen.”
He did not say this. You are leaving out important context, as has been pointed out by every single fact-checking organization in the United States, and you are doing it on purpose, because you have no respect for the truth.
Chris the CBO did say that Obamacare reduces the debt by 90 billion within ten years.
Whoopdydoo! Interest on the debt increases at the rate of over $3 million a minute and though you think you are getting a deal you have actually signed on for higher taxes, higher prices, and shortages nor rashioning.
Can you spell stupid? Yes…it is stupid when we could bring the costs down for everyone, cover people with preexisting conditions, and allow doctors and hospitals to be reimbursed for services with just a few simple changes in the law…and we would still have a safety net for the truly needy without racking up massive tax burdens that are a drag on the economy or new debt.
The CBO scores on conditions as they are today…they don’t have a crystal ball. Life is not static. In the past such evaluations have proven to be way off and aways way to low. I have shared with you what medicare was supposed to cost initially.
The tax credits he offered business are useless! they invite businesses to hire or buy new equipoment when there is no business to pay for it. He stupidly, and arrogantly, thinks that debt or bigger payroll expense is what business needs!
Gas production has increased on private lands; nothing Obama did made that happen. Oil leases that were awarded under Bush are now at the point of delivery and Obama is taking credit for it; nothing he has done made it happen. He has limited oil leases on federal land and in the Gulf and his EPA has regulated the coal industry into the ground (pardon the pun). Obama delivered on a promise he made in 2008 and put a lot of people out of work. The promise:
See the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF7Qm31LIDM
Sarah Palin was right!
And the media did spin control…Obama just meant we needed to transition. He’s an ass. It is one thing when market forces take jobs or when other industry becomes more affordable…industry usually has time to adjust to those forces. it is another for government to deliberately destroy an industry and that is what this dumb-ass has done. He thinks he is so smart; in reality he is a baby play acting at being a grown up.
It was announced today that 1,200 coal-mining jobs have been eliminated across central Appalachia. Low gas prices contributed to a slow down for coal production but harsh EPA rules under Obama was the major killer behind closing coal generated plants and behind not building new ones across the three states of Virginia, Pennsylvania and West Virginia.
Define “fair share” for me. What does it mean? What rules do you use to determine a fair share? And what about greed? How do you know the rich are greedy? What is the yardstick for measuring greed.
I doubt I’ll get much of an answer. The following is what I think about determining a fair share and how to define greed.
I would measure a fair share in terms of contributions made to society. Those you target, the wealthy, pay most of the federal taxes and more in interest and dividend taxes. The wealthy put their wealth at risk and invest it to create jobs, they give large sums to charity, education, and philanthropic foundations. They spend in ways that create specialty jobs and industries: travel, food & wine. they spend on high priced luxury items: jewelry, clothing, furniture, yachts, art. All of this high powered spending creates jobs. They own high priced properties and pay big property tax and insurance bills! They staff people to care for these things. They fund research and development, higher education, the arts. All of these activities and investments represent big contributions to society. HUGE!
Greed is about coveting what hasn’t been earned or that belongs to someone else. Greed is contributing little and taking as much as you can get. Greed is expecting someone else to pay yoru way in life or to pay for things you should provide for yourself. Greed is expecting others to pay for un-fun things like healthcare insurance or contraception so you can spend on dinner out, electronic toys, vacations and movies. Greed is taking without contributing…big greed is making it a lifestyle!
The President has demonstrated his position about business so clearly that the other sentences around “you didn’t build that” fall into the background. I am not denying the context or the other things he said about sharing and working together. But it still does not alter his general attitude toward business as expressed in that one sentence.
The president has no respect or appreciation for what it takes to start, build, and run a business. He has no experience to guide him. Everything has been handed to him in life…special schools, special considerations to get into schools, and promotion to office and finally the highest office in the land by his party. He said what he said Chris and it was exactly what he meant to say. Those of us that had to risk, invest and work for what we have get it.
“Doctors are forced by law to accept less for their services if they accept medicare patients.”
But they are not forced to take them on … as you originally asserted. And I am all for compensating Medicaid doctors at market rates. It’s you who won’t pony up.
“Nobody has suggested eliminating Medicare for the elderly.”
Of course you have. If you want to abolish Medicare, and the elderly have no money to pay for private practitioners … that’s a death sentence.
One more thing: Doesn’t anyone else think it’s ironic that Mitt Romney is making accusations toward people who pay no income taxes, while refusing to release his own tax records? Wouldn’t it be rich if it came to light that Mitt Romney has been one of the 47% who pays no income tax?
Libby: ” And I am all for compensating Medicaid doctors at market rates. It’s you who won’t pony up.”
Sure you are because you don’t have a clue what it will cost you, what it will do to unemployment numbers, what it will do to the economy overall. Because YOU still think like a child…money just comes out of nowhere.
No doctors are not forced to take MC patients and I did not assert that originally…you ASSumed that is what I said and then tried to do your usual number on me with the lie.
No one on the right has advocated getting rid of Medicare! That is a lie…this is beneath you, Libby but I am not surprised. /this is what the left does because their arguments are crap!
What is the accusation? That many of that 47% have come to have an entitlement attitude? Are you disputing that? If so I find that ironic.
You think people are entitled to “a living wage” a nonsense political term without practical definition in the business world. You think people are entitled to healthcare, some of it for free or paid for exclusively by the rich. I imagine you could give me a few more examples of demands without regard to cost or sustainability.
This is entitlement thinking, something that was unheard of just fifty years ago when Americans believed that people had to work for what they got. It comes from giving things to people without expecting a cost or by masking the true cost. It comes from making sure people have no experience of what it takes to pay for what they get (like spoiled children).
It isn’t healthy for adult citizens to have this attitude and it will lead to a collapsed society if it continues.
Romney is being the adult in the room. He realizes that we have failed “the children” by expecting too little of them and because of that they are crippled as adults. He was simply stating a fact, the main point of which was that those people will vote for Obama.
Of all people you should know how difficult it would be to win the heart or mind of those who defend and vote for Obama. He’s offering (children) endless streams of candy and toys without strings and telling them that he will make their older brother mow the lawn, do the dishes, wash the car, and run a paper route to pay for it. Romney is asking that these children grow up and think like grown ups. He’s attempting to show them that when we are all productive we can all live better and do more.
Romney knows it is nearly impossible to change the thinking of many Americans do you really disagree or are you just wanting to think this man of incredible charity and service is heartless?
Tina: “What is the accusation? That many of that 47% have come to have an entitlement attitude?”
Romney didn’t say “many” of the 47%. He used the 47% number to describe people who are not “responsible,” who feel “entitled,” who believe they are “victims,” and who he will never be able to convince to “care for their lives.” He insulted nearly half of America.
It’s especially ironic given that Romney has used loopholes favoring the rich to pay a lower percentage on income tax than the average American.
John Stewart points out that in 2010, Romney got a government subsidy of $4.5 million. He could have paid $7.56 million on his adjusted gross income of $21.6 million, but only paid $3 million–“a government subsidy of four and a half million dollars.”
“Or, to put that absolutely fair tax break given to a job creator in moocher class dependency terms, enough food stamps to feed Mr. Romney through the year 4870. By the way, that’s no bullsh*t–that’s the math!…
…If they have success, they built it; if they failed, the government ruined it for them. If they get a break, they’ve earned it; if you get a break, it’s a handout and an entitlement. It’s a baffling, willfully blind cognitive dissonance…”
This is your “adult,” Tina? The man who feels entitled to a $4.5 million tax break while American children starve, and then has the nerve to mock the starving as a bunch of lazy moochers? This is the man you trust to be your president?
That is sick.
Chris: “He insulted nearly half of America.”
Yes, and Obama insulted the other half, business people, the contributing class that can provide jobs, which you brushed away as insignificant.
Are we surprised by these things? It’s an election year!
But you have, as you often do, sidestepped the question.
Do people in America have an entitlement mind set? The answer is yes, Chris. It is a sad reality but it is a reality none the less.
It isn’t the fault of the people entirely. We as a nation established the mindset when we decided government should play Santa. As I have said, and I would bet Romney would agree, you can’t blame people for taking what is freely offered. It’s human nature to take the easy path. After sixty years it is inevitable that a certain number of people would lose the sense of self reliance that made America stronger and gave individuals a sense of accomplishment.
“It’s especially ironic given that Romney has used loopholes favoring the rich to pay a lower percentage on income tax than the average American.”
Romney didn’t write the rules. Romney pays his taxes according to the law…no one, not you and not John Stewart…would do it differently!
Romney is advocating closing loop holes and lowering rates to expand business, create millions of jobs, and increase the revenue that flows to government. Its a better plan for opportunity, growth, and wealth increase for everyone.
Romney doesn’t need a salary so he doesn’t take one. Because of this he doesn’t pay federal tax on salary. He does pay tax on investments and savings…just like everyone else who saves and invests. Romney doesn’t need this money but at his level of wealth the income is inevitable…you have to do something with that wealth. As savings and investment the money is used to grow business and create jobs…it becomes a contribution to society that we encourage when we keep the rates low.
Think on this: If we didn’t tax investment income at all more people in the middle and lower classes would have the opportunity to save, invest, and create wealth for themselves over their lifetimes. They would have that money for a down payment on a home or other needs or for their retirement years. That would make them independent. It would make them strong, it would move them up in the world, and America would be stronger for it. (Fewer needy people)
“John Stewart points out that in 2010, Romney got a government subsidy of $4.5 million. He could have paid $7.56 million on his adjusted gross income of $21.6 million…”
What John Stewart leaves out is that the money Romney made that income from has already been taxed either as regular income or as investment income. It’s use in the private sector is better for a robust economy! (Stupid thinking)
What you are describing Chris is an entitlement to what another has earned and paid tax on…HIS PROPERTY. It seems right because it makes you feel better to think you are being generous. But that is generosity with other peoples money…it is theft not giving.
If you were truly a generous person you would give to others personally with your own money. You would demand laws, an educational system, and higher expectations with respect to morality and contribution, and an economy that offers people an abundance of opportunity…a system that supports people in learning/earning a trade or profession so that they no longer need help. A strong society has few people who are needy. That was the America I was born into. Socialist programs have bred the neediness and the vicious cycle is threatening to send us all down the drain.
“The man who feels entitled to a $4.5 million tax break…”
My God how you twist the truth! And how incredibly greedy and covetous you are…millions of dollars every year isn’t enough of a contribution…YOU WANT BLOOD! You want to bring the Romney’s of the country down. You want to kill the idea that a person in America can start with nothing and build a fortune. You want to kill the American dream and make everyone equally poor and miserable. And all because of stupid thinking and the need to feel generous even when you aren’t.
Why not give those on food stamps a better shot at building a fortune for themselves? Why do you want to keep them at the poverty level? Just so you can stick it to the wealthy? that is sick!
That man gave his inheritance away to charity and started from zero! He built that wealth and he helped a lot of other people build wealth along the way. He created opportunity and jobs for other people to prosper. He paid his taxes according to the tax laws, which in the beginning meant that he paid taxes on a salary just like others do who start out with nothing. He paid more as his salary grew. Now he doesn’t need a salary so he doesn’t take one…his life has become one of service. He didn’t take a salary when he served as leader for the Olympics or as governor. He gives very generously to others in terms of cash donations and his personal time.
What the hell, Chris! You should live to GIVE SO MUCH!!!!
Yes this is the man I want as president. He accepts the reality that our people have come to have a sense of entitlement but he knows how to offer them more opportunity to become productive authors of a better future for themselves.
He knows how to do this even if they don’t and even if they prefer an incompetent boob who thinks they should settle for what they can take that he takes from another to make himself loved and adored! he knows they are diminished as people through the uncaring cold redistribution schemes offered by dear leader and the sycophants who adore him.
Chris you have bought in to the empty care package that is socialism. SAD!
“That man gave his inheritance away to charity and started from zero! He built that wealth and he helped a lot of other people build wealth along the way.”
Tina, you really need to do some reading about how the capitalist class operates. They don’t have to play by the rules we do.
A regular Joe defaults on his mortgage, through no fault of his own, mind, … from external circumstances entirely beyond his control … no matter how clever, energetic, innovative he may be in the operation of his Taco Bell franchise … his economic ass is fried.
But I know a guy with two real estate developments in bankruptcy and a third on the hairy edge. This does not hinder in any way his ability to persuade more capitalists to risk yet more money on yet another screwy idea. Know why? Because of the family he was born into, the network he cultivated during some very privileged schooling, the family he married into, and like that.
Romney … zero? Not ever. Not even close.
Tina: “Yes, and Obama insulted the other half, business people, the contributing class that can provide jobs, which you brushed away as insignificant.”
I didn’t brush it away as “insignificant;” I pointed out that it was NON-EXISTENT. It didn’t happen, period, and no amount of repeating it will make it true. President Obama was referring to taxpayer-funded infrastructure when he said “you didn’t build that,” and his speech was about the goods of both individual initiative AND public support. Your stupid, willful misinterpretation of Obama’s speech will never be anything other than a stupid, willful misinterpretation.
I am also aghast at your assertion that half of Americans are the “contributing class,” and the other are…what? Lazy parasites? Why not just come right out and say it?
“Are we surprised by these things? It’s an election year!”
Are you seriously saying that it is common or smart in an election year for a presidential candidate to insult half of America?
“But you have, as you often do, sidestepped the question.
Do people in America have an entitlement mind set?”
Some people do. Most don’t. I don’t think the number approaches anywhere near 47%, which is Romney’s estimate.
But then, we fundamentally disagree over what an “entitlement mindset” is. I believe that all human beings deserve affordable access to food, shelter, education, and healthcare, and it is the proper role of a democratic government to use taxpayer monies to provide that access. You call these things “entitlements.” I call them human rights.
And most of the industrialized world agrees with me, and has for a very long time now. Winston Churchhill agreed. (Judging by your comments in the article you wrote comparing people who believe in universal healthcare to Nazis, that makes Winston Churchhil “Nazi-like.”) That you don’t agree puts you out of touch with modern society. You’re not just behind the 21st century; you’re behind the 20th. We don’t need a president who shares such an outdated, irrelevant viewpoint.
“Romney didn’t write the rules. Romney pays his taxes according to the law…”
As far as we know. He is the first major presidential candidate in twenty years to refuse to release any more than two years of tax returns, so one has to wonder what he is hiding.
“Romney is advocating closing loop holes”
Yet when asked which loop holes he plans on closing, both he and Ryan refuse to answer. Given that these loop holes have been hugely beneficial to Romney and his rich friends, and given Romney’s reluctance to release his tax returns, why on earth would anyone believe him when he says he will close loopholes for the rich? If you’re just going to take that on faith, I know a Nigerian prince who could really use your help.
“Romney doesn’t need a salary so he doesn’t take one. Because of this he doesn’t pay federal tax on salary. He does pay tax on investments and savings…just like everyone else who saves and invests. Romney doesn’t need this money but at his level of wealth the income is inevitable…you have to do something with that wealth. As savings and investment the money is used to grow business and create jobs…it becomes a contribution to society that we encourage when we keep the rates low.”
He is also choosing to set aside a lot of that money in foreign tax shelters. That money does not contribute to our society.
“My God how you twist the truth!”
How did I twist the truth? Romney did get a $4.5 million tax break. That is a fact.
“And how incredibly greedy and covetous you are…millions of dollars every year isn’t enough of a contribution…YOU WANT BLOOD! You want to bring the Romney’s of the country down. You want to kill the idea that a person in America can start with nothing and build a fortune. You want to kill the American dream and make everyone equally poor and miserable. And all because of stupid thinking and the need to feel generous even when you aren’t.”
Ridiculous. Romney would not be “brought down” if he paid $7 million instead of $3 million. His businesses would not be crippled if his tax rate was raised to 39% instead of 35%. He would not lose anything of real value if he actually paid the full 35% instead the effective 13% he ended up paying.
And yet you think calling those of us who are really struggling “victims” with an “entitlement mentality,” and implying that we–not Romney–should be paying more in income tax, makes sense? That’s crazy.
“Why not give those on food stamps a better shot at building a fortune for themselves? Why do you want to keep them at the poverty level? Just so you can stick it to the wealthy? that is sick!”
Tina, as you know, my family is currently on food stamps. Do you think I want us, or families like us, to stay at the poverty level? Hell no! But the fact that we don’t have to worry so much about putting food on the table, and can use our money for other things–gas money to get to school and work, clothing (none of us buy expensive clothes–I haven’t bought a single new item of clothing, other than socks, underwear, and a pair of flip-flops, since May), bills, rent…the basics–is what GIVES US a better shot at building a better life. Without the Pell Grant–which Ryan and Romney want to CUT–I would not be attending college. I could rely entirely on student loans, but you were against Obama’s reform of that system. Without minimum wage laws–which you want to ELIMINATE–there would be nothing to stop Wal-Mart from paying me less than I earn now. Without government-funded schools–which you want to CUT funding for–my mom would still be getting treated like sh*t in the private sector flower industry instead of finding a job in the past year that both pays and treats her better, and has guaranteed hours. I would also not have a future career without investments in public education.
Your policies are utterly wrong for me and my family. You simply do not understand the value of public investment in helping people achieve.
“That man gave his inheritance away to charity and started from zero!”
I think it’s wonderful that Romney gave away his inheritance. But let’s be honest; he didn’t “start from zero.” I don’t doubt that he worked hard and lived sparingly during his youth, but he also had certain advantages, and his family did help him out a lot. His parents bought him a car, and his business connections helped him greatly. He made a lot of money in stocks. He had plenty of disposable income, despite not having a paying job, when he worked as a missionary. By the time he got his inheritance, he was already a millionaire; he said he gave it away because he didn’t need the money.
I don’t begrudge Romney for any of this! I do take issue with his current philosophy, and the sneering contempt he expresses for those who do not have the same advantages he did.
Libby: “his economic ass is fried.”
Libby you are old enough to know that life ain’t fair! I don’t care what you do it will always be so.
All of your government control and manipulation with the regulations and rules just make a big complex expensive mess. Sometimes it even creates a bigger problem…can you say housing crash!!!!! Can you say ruined economy? Can you say massive debt growing for over six decades? Can you say states and cities that are bankrupt. What the heck do you think happens to the poor taco bell owner because of all that government meddling?
Class envy is stupid! The idea that having money is automatically immoral is stupid. The idea that you should have the power to take it from them and spend it according to your ideas is really sad, immoral…and stupid!
They pay at least 70% of the federal tax burden already!
Have you ever written a check for over a million dollars?
Would you be pleased to send it to an entity that you KNOW will waste and spend irresponsibly?
Poverty programs have not lifted people out of poverty…and our poverty roles are increasing now thanks to the economic brilliance of BHA. Our educational system is a sad shadow of its former self, entitlement programs are going broke, morals and values make educating and hiring a nightmare…our society has been bombarded by leftist polices and ideas we are in big trouble…who wants to fund more of the same…only an idiot or someone who is insane.
Give it up…your politics and your leadership have both failed.
“Libby you are old enough to know that life ain’t fair!”
I’m not talking about “life”, I’m talking about the economic institutions of this nation, which favor one class of people over another.
Libby: ” I’m talking about the economic institutions of this nation, which favor one class of people over another. ”
Duh!
Then get your butt out of the class you are in and into the one you want to be in.
Economic institutions are not in the business of making life fair. They are in the business of making money, loaning money, holding money, and disseminating money as directed by their clients written transactions. They are regulated so as to give each depositor the same rate of interest as other depositors. Given an impressive equity position a person will, of course, be able to borrow more money from these institutions…but only because the collateral borrowed against can be taken away if he defaults. It’s business…not social engineering.
Here’s the hard truth. Anyone who wants money and has none is going to have to work hard, sacrifice, save, and later invest to make more money. If he is wise he will also invest in education or training and develop a smart plan.
But let’s face it. You don’t have to be rich to have a good life in America. Middle class comfortable is “rich” for a lot of people. They might enjoy having a blank load of money for awhile but with the money comes the responsibility and most of us don’t really want that. Most of us just want to be able to go fishing on Saturday, enjoy time with family and friends, and have a cushion for our retirement. Having a home, maybe a nice car is good but modest is usually enough. We need a good economy for that dream to be alive.
The real poor people of this world would think our “poor” are very rich. Obama’s half brother in Kenya lives in a hut…common!
The question remains: do you want to live in a country with high unemployment, little opportunity, big government debt, and shared misery? Cause that is what you have to offer with your socialist model.
I’d rather empower the individual. Individuals are more creative and interesting than government could ever be. They dream and imagine all kinds of wonders and in the process create wonderful, innovative and helpful things and at the same time give other people a place to work and earn money for themselves and their families. People in communities get together for fun or for service and they handle problems and get things done in the community. That is so much more rewarding than a government program could ever be. People what to amke a difference…the best place to do it is right in your own neighborhood.
Ah Libby for heavens sake. Higher taxes on Romney mean higher taxes on the middle, little people…people that are trying to build something and create jobs. You won’t hurt Romney or Buffet or Soros or Al Gore or Kerry…they won’t even notice! You will hurt significantly those entrepreneurs who are trying to build on their dreams and who offer new opportunities for others when they succeed.
And we have shown you that when the tax base is expanded (more citizens working) whether they have a low tax rate or are in Buffets investment bracket…more money out in the economy, making money (wealth building) means more money flows to government and isn’t that what you are clamoring for?
Win, win, win?
Or central planning and control that blunts creativity and growth? (ugh…I already know the answer)
And by the way, as long as I’m on a tax rant, that Buffet secretary story was all smoke and mirrors.
Warren Buffet claimed his secretary earns 60K a year and pays a 30% income tax rate while he pays 15% on his investment income and that aint fair.
Buffet is one of the wealthiest men on the planet and hes telling us his secretary only makes $60K a year? What a cheap skate
or, is it that she is well compensated in bonus money bringing her real income to over $250K which would put her in the 30% bracket (just a little white lie)
or she is compensated in investments like stock which pay her big dividend income and if you add what she pays at 15% on dividends and interest income to what she pays at 15% on her 60K salary her effective rate (per the little white lie) is 30%.
Either way she is undoubtedly not writing a check to the government every single year, year after year, in the millions of dollars…Warren Buffet is.
I call that fair. In fact I call her position more than fair; she is very fortunate. I’ll bet she earned that position!
Tina: “Then get your butt out of the class you are in and into the one you want to be in.”
Yeah, Libby, why don’t you stop being lazy and just be rich?
Chris the sad sad truth is that you don’t get that it is possible over time with education, work, sacrifuce, saving and investing anyone who wants to can get richer in America. It’s a matter of making choices and developing skills.
But with your closed, prejudiced mind I am no doubt wasting my time.
“Here’s the hard truth. Anyone who wants money and has none is going to have to work hard, sacrifice, save, and later invest to make more money.”
Has my developer sacrificed? … saved? … even worked very hard?
No.
He has lived a very affluent life on monies he has never … will never … pay back.
You just will not hear … will you?
You are duped … by a fantasy of “individual responsibility” that exists only among people who are not you, … and of whom you will never hear.
FYI: There are 4,000 millionaires in Romney’s ‘47%’ that pay no federal taxes.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/18/pf/taxes/romney-income-taxes-millionaires/index.html?iid=obnetwork
“Chris the sad sad truth is that you don’t get that it is possible over time with education, work, sacrifuce, saving and investing anyone who wants to can get richer in America. It’s a matter of making choices and developing skills.”
You’re missing a key ingredient there: help.
Not everyone can *afford* a decent education, Tina. The men on your party’s ticket want to eliminate funding to make college even less affordable (while also trying to break the public’s trust in college education by trying to paint them as liberal indoctrination centers).
Not everyone can get a decent job in this economy, no matter how hard they try. Some of these people are veterans; your party just voted against a jobs bill for veterans just to stick it to the Democrats.
Investment? You’re trippin’. My family has to spend nearly every dime we get as soon as we get it. We don’t make enough right now to invest in anything.
That won’t always be the case. I am working hard, educating myself, and sacrificing for my family in order to ensure a better future. But as I have explained before, what ALSO makes this future possible for me is the social safety net that I have had to take advantage of. I am not so arrogant and prideful that I feel the need to deny that I have received help from government (as we all do in some form or another). It’s a shame that you feel the need to deny that.
Sarah Zachariah, another hard worker who has taken government assistance to support her family, puts it far better than I can in a letter to Mitt Romney:
“Dear Candidate Romney,
I saw you. I saw your video.
I saw you speaking candidly and off the cuff about me. Dont get me wrong, I know that you didnt mention me by name or anything, but we both know you were talking about me.
When you were talking of 47% of the population that is never going to vote for you because we are dependent victims who lazily live on government programs like food stamps, I cant help but take personal offense. In fact, once you decided to lump in in anybody who is never going to vote for you, you werent just talking about me, but many people I love, and about 90% of the people I know.
My children eat because of food stamps, Mr. Romney. Now sir, I want you to picture a Wyoming cowgirl, a mother, a fighter, a righteous, determined, god loving woman; a Rocky Mountain Grizzly Bear Mamma that would make Sarah Palins makeup wearing pit bull shudder. Picture me staring you in the eyes as I ask you, What business have you got talking about me and mine like that?
I am watching you run your Richie-rich mouth on TV right now, with your little flag lapel pin over your heart. You brag that you will bring 12 million new jobs and rising take home pay. Quite frankly, I have no reason to believe you or your failures in arithmetic. Even if you did manage such a feat, Id point to the 4.5 million job head start you had thanks to President Obama saving the nation from the failed GOP policies you use as a platform, which nearly caused a second great depression.
You said that you think that 47% of Americans think they are victims and you even said it wasnt your job to worry about us.
First, I must argue you. I am not a victim. I have been beaten. I have been bullied. I have been raped. I have been addicted. I have been alone. I have been poor. I have been homeless. I have been sick and broken. I have chosen each and every single time to stand up and pull myself and my family out of those circumstances. I beat every one of them without any riches to aid me. I did that without any inheritance, any gifted stocks or bonds, any loans, any rich family, or any elevators for my cars.
I did it because, I am not a victim. I am an American. I am the Mom in Chief of my house and nothing less than the very best that I can provide will do. I am the product of women who forded rivers to fetch the mail after working a hard days labor on the Laramie high plains. I am a force to be reckoned with.
If you dont believe me, you could ask the doctor who has to take fluid from my spine on a regular basis to preserve my ability to see due to a rare disease. If you dont believe me you can ask our Ambassador to China, Gary
Locke, who personally invited me to a bill signing when I helped Washington State legislate protection for children in schools against bullying by sharing my own experiences. If you dont believe me, you can ask my children who have seen me struggle but always, always, provide for them.
Any one of these people will tell you, that this American is not a victim.
You call me entitled. I devote every day of my life to bettering the planet I live in with no hope of profit. I am sorry sir, but you calling me entitled is like the pot calling the dove black. That isnt going to work. I challenge you to stand at my side and let the American public judge, which of us is entitled. I spend every dime of mine and my husbands earned income as quickly as it comes in, right here in my town. Every dime I earn and spend stays in America. I am the ultimate in job creator. Who are you to challenge me?
You call me entitled. Every year on April 15th I am certain that I have shown every cent that went through my pocket honestly. I dream of a day when I am well enough off to pay taxes. I fantasize of the flourish with which I will write my first check to the IRS. I would give any earthly belonging I have to be self-sufficient enough to be able to pay it forward to the society that I love.
No, you cannot challenge me Mitt Romney. I challenge you- where are your tax returns?
I fought, I graduated at the top of my class in college, and I pursued graduate studies. I took loans against myself, believing that this would pay off, but then in 2009 something happened.
No, it wasnt Barack Obamas inauguration; it was a sudden injury to my spine that ended up revealing not one but two severe spinal diseases. . Since then I have been unable to finish my studies or work. Id like to know, Mr. Romney; how many months of physical therapy, how many of my surgeries, how many of my scars must I share to prove my devotion to wanting to be better? How many of my efforts must I submit before youll see me, an American Citizen, as worthy of your worry? When you tell me to take responsibility for myself, I ask you, what after that?
This evening, when you justified your awful video, you said that you had said what you did because you were reassuring your donators that you could win this election. Im sorry that you have to pander to your base like that.
You seem to have sold out your soul. You have forgotten the eye of the needle with that wealth youve got. Youve left behind Matthew 24:50. I hate to be the one to tell ya buddy but -you are not the promised one. The promised one understands that the 47% that you are talking about, theyre more than low wage workers and elderly people who worked their whole lives and paid into the system, they are the 100% that your God is concerned with when he said Love thy neighbor. You may pay a tithe with your wallet, but its obvious youve neglected to tithe your heart.
My husband left for work at 7 am. It is now 9 pm and he wont be home again for two more hours from his second job today. I spent yesterday at the emergency room; I have been waiting for two years for social security. I do not understand. How much more do we have to work to show you that your call for jobs isnt enough? You must also be concerned for the whole nation, and whether we eat, and whether we have medicine. You must care if a hardworking, devoted family like mine is unable to survive after investing their best efforts. How many jobs do you expect every American to take? 3? 4?
You simply must stop and consider those you dismiss as beneath you or you cannot be our leader. It is an unwritten but widely understood rule of the presidency. I dont know what they taught you, when you were out there scalping businesses hard won on the backs of people like that 47% you so rudely kick around, but in the real world we care when Americans suffer. We care when you forget the young men and women who serve our nation by sacrificing their lives. We care when Americans go hungry. We care when Americans jobs are sent overseas and rich men hide societal resources in offshore accounts. We care that we are being ripped off, even if you find profit and power in our suffering, we still exist, we still care, and we will still stand up.
See? You called me a victim, you called me entitled, you called me a lot of other things in that video, but on every count – you are wrong. Just by writing you this letter, Ive proven I am not your victim. Just by living my life of hard and dutiful effort I have proven that I am not entitled. In fact, I consider it a duty as a citizen of this Great United States to shout loudly and proudly – Mitt Romney is not and never will be my president!
I warn you Mr. Romney, the one thing that I have not, and will not ever lose, is my voice. I will sound it each and every one of these 50 days until Barack Obama is reelected, we will vote with Compassion and Wisdom, and Empathy and you sir, can keep your spite and your hate and your rhetoric and see your way out.
Sincerely, Sarah Zacharias aka The Bucking Jenny”
http://thebuckingjenny.blogspot.com/
Jim: “There are 4,000 millionaires in Romney’s ‘47%’ that pay no federal taxes.”
Thanks for the link but I didn’t need it; I believe you.
What does this mean to you? Do you think the contributions they make other than federal tax payments are valuable?
America has a graduated tax code. People who make less in wages pay less. Many Americans pay nothing…some get money back even when they owe no tax.
We have a low rate on savings and investment income because we want to encourage savings and investment. Who better to make that kind of contribution than those who own wealth. That money is used to give small business loans and housing and car loans. It is used to fund research and development and expand large companies. All of those things mean jobs and opportunity for Americans. Do you really think it would be a good idea to stifle that contribution?
Wealthy people also give generously to colleges and museums, the arts…these also mean opportunity, a means to higher learning, and cultural enjoyment for Americans. Would you want to stifle that?
Is it smart to stifle this kind of saving and investing in the private sector when people need jobs so desperately?
And what about our government? Doesn’t it require so much of our property, of our individual working capital, because it (our representatives) has been irresponsible, corrupt and wasteful? Isn’t the need to take from all of us, including the rich, a result of programs that do not deliver and cannot be sustained? Isn’t it a result of an ever growing bureaucracy that cost more than we can afford as a country?
I know people that had only the clothing on their backs and no command of the language when they came to America. They ate rice and lived two families to an apartment to save enough to learn English, get a minimum wage job, and make a start for themselves. That was back in the seventies when inflation was rampant, interest rates were high as a kite, and we were all sitting in gas lines in California. Our utility bills were rising, food costs were rising…it was horrible. This couple got to California only because fate intervened…they escaped the killing fields in Cambodia and the Murderous Pol Pot.
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/pol-pot.htm
I didn’t say it was easy to make it in America…I said it took sacrifice and a plan. You think the only way is government help. I’m telling you millions of people have done it without government help. You have a mindset but it isn’t the only mindset. It is very discouraging that the only solution that you can think of is going to government. That mind set is not what built this country…I don’t care who says it!
My own parents started with nothing! My father was raised by a single mother. My mom was an orphan at age twelve with two little brothers to watch out for (her moms last request). Neither of them were able to afford a college education and they still made a decent living and built a middle class life for themselves. They managed to save and buy a home and adequately prepare for their retirement years too before leaving this earth.
“I am not so arrogant and prideful that I feel the need to deny that I have received help from government (as we all do in some form or another). It’s a shame that you feel the need to deny that.”
You really are something Chris. I have told you flat out I don’t blame you or anyone else for taking what is offered. Anyone would take what is offered!
Republicans are offering an alternative that will work for everyone better because it can bring prices down, cause earnings to go up, and create abundance and opportunity with a lot less waste in money and resources. We offer ideas that rely on personal involvement and more local control in charitable acts.
You are so prideful and stuck in that big government mindset you won’t even consider. It’s a damn shame. I think it wise to learn from those who have actually done it…Mr. Romney started with nothing. He has done it…don’t you think he might have some wisdom that would serve you as you move through life and make choices for yourself and your family? You go to a doctor for medical advice, a mechanic for car troubles…doesn’t it make sense to go with a man that has made money and created jobs to get this economy going? Doesn’t it make sense to go with a guy who has turned around the Olympics and made it a success rather than a community organizer that wasted government money on a school improvement project in Chicago that didn’t work?
I have said, Romney has said, that government help is not the ONLY way to make a better life possible for people. I will now add that it has been government meddling that has made the price of EVERYTHING much higher which makes it increasingly harder for those on the bottom to move up.
Okay…good…government helped you…what about tomorrows Chris’s and Sarah’s…do you give a damn about them? This big government plan is UNSUSTAINABLE! Right now you are screaming to take more from the rich. When that is no longer enough they will want more from the middle class. It’s a losing plan on a path that leads to tyranny.
I AM NOT THE ENEMY! ROMNEY IS NOT YOUR ENEMY! Your confusion on this point makes it impossible for you to learn about what would be in the best interest of your family.
Envy, greed, and covetousness are being used by one political party as a collectivist tool to keep you shucking and jiving for more big government…and more power for them. It should make you want to throw up!
You are a fool.
I don’t dismiss the less privileged, the poor, the struggling in our society. Conservatives want everyone to have opportunity and a chance to succeed. Attitude is part of the picture and an attitude that incorporates failure without government help is going to eventually destroy that which it depends most upon…freedom and private wealth.
Mitt Romney has not been in charge for the last four years. He didn’t put America’s military veterans in a position where they can’t find work.
Obama has presided in America as millions of Americans, including returning veterans, can’t find work and fall into poverty. Extended unemployment, food stamps, easy disability, and executive orders to remove work requirements for welfare are a ruse to cover for Obama’s miserable record on recovery and job creation. The ONLY time he gave it his attention to jobs was in the final hours before this election…for votes.
Sarah Zachariah is an attitude on steroids. Instead of thinking, she is all emotion.
Romney knows how to make the economy better and he knows how to create jobs. He has done it. He has amassed a fortune doing it…but the little prideful fool would rather take Romney’s remarks and wound herself than listen to what he has to say.
Like you she cannot be blamed for her circumstances, God or fate determine that for each of us. Neither can you be blamed for taking what our government offers to get ahead. But the disdain she and you hold for Romney over these remarks is misplaced and demonstrates ingratitude and a closed mind filled with muddled. In terms of the Obama record it shows an incredible inability to see what has happened right before your eyes!
Sarah has learned through the political ugliness of class envy to hate those who because of their wealth contribute mightily to our society. They contribute through federal and investment taxes paid to fill government coffers and through high taxes on homes and other high priced purchases. They contribute by creating jobs and income and benefits for others. They further contribute to education, hospitals, museums, and libraries and through endowments and foundations they give generously to research and charity.
You will never be happy harboring so much hate and anger for those who make these giant contributions…especially this fine man who gives so much in money, time and personal attention, both in public and in private, to those in need. The man knows things about making it in America and contributing; you could learn from him.
Shame on the both of you for thinking only of yourselves and not for the nation as a whole! And shame on you for thinking the man that has failed this nation abysmally, Barack Obama, would be a better choice as president.
Tina: “My mom was an orphan at age twelve with two little brothers to watch out for (her moms last request). Neither of them were able to afford a college education and they still made a decent living and built a middle class life for themselves.”
Your mom lived during a time when it was possible to make a decent living and build a middle class life without a college education. Today, that isn’t possible.
“Mr. Romney started with nothing.”
Libby and I have already explained to you how this is complete bullsh*t.
You keep saying that I hold “hatred” toward the rich…I have never called all people who are wealthy names the way Romney did at that campaign fundraiser. You don’t think what Romney said was hateful even though he expressed contempt and derision for 47% of Americans, those who are too poor to pay income taxes, and essentially called us all a bunch of lazy moochers who are not “responsible” and who he will never convince to “care for our lives.” And yet, when I criticize this language, I am the hater?Classic Tina.
You’re right to point out that there are people who came to this country with nothing, and found success. But my guess is that most people who did this? Failed. That’s why we have a social safety net, because we believe that society is better off when everyone has a better chance to succeed.
Blaming the social safety net for too many people being on welfare is a tautology. We have too many people on welfare because work has not been incentivized. The minimum wage is lower than it’s been since the 1960s, and you want to get rid of it entirely! There is no excuse for this. Corporate profits are at an all-time high. As grateful as I am for my job at Wal-Mart, there is no excuse for them to effectively pay their workers less than they did when the company first started, when their profits are greater today than they’ve ever been. This makes no sense under trickle-down economics. There should be a positive, not a negative, correlation between corporate profits and worker pay. But there hasn’t been.
You want more jobs and less people on welfare? So do I. Two big solutions would be to raise the minimum wage, and stop outsourcing. These two measures have to be taken together, or neither can succeed. If we just stop outsourcing, corporations will just pay their workers less. If we just raise the minimum wage, corporations will just hire less Americans and more foreigners. But if we do both, we will have more American jobs, with higher pay. I don’t see how anyone who claims to be for job creation and less government dependency can be against these solutions.
Chris if they failed to make it in a free and open capitalist society that rewards hard work, education, intelligence and inspiration what makes you think they will be more successful after they are put on welfare?
Chris: “Your mom lived during a time when it was possible to make a decent living and build a middle class life without a college education. Today, that isn’t possible.”
Bologna…people do it every day. You live in a bubble Chris. There are people making lives for themselves without a college education all across America. The last four years have crippled them and moved more into the poverty class but we still have a chance to get back on track. We just need to toss as many of the socialists as possible from DC. They are such phony liars.
“Libby and I have already explained to you how this is complete bullsh*t.”
Yes, you have a small, envious, covetous, mind and cannot conceive of someone starting out by applying for his first job and building on that. Only when government hands you money taken from others can you live and succeed. Sorry Chris, that is BS.
You need to check out these webpages:
http://www.moderndcbusiness.com/d-c-cupcakes-sweet-success-story.html
And this guy (#1) who started with 3K:
http://www.inc.com/ss/7-start-success-stories#1
And this page of success stories:
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/224357?cam=Dev&ctp=PopRightMod&cdt=4&cdn=224357
“You don’t think what Romney said was hateful even though he expressed contempt and derision for 47% of Americans”
No I don’t think it was hateful. I think it was tragically true! I think he thinks so too. We have embraced the notion of victim-hood…Oprah Winfrey made a billion dollars crying on her program under this theme. Romney and every conservative I know would sooner see people embrace their own potential to succeed and is in favor of policies that offer as many opportunities as possible for success.
The Democrat Party offers a single path…dependency and more government jobs! And after a decades long experiment in dependency politics we find that it leads to unsustainable programs, massive and growing debt, and a diminished middle class that is crowding the safety net. The safety net is now so filled with people it’s about to break…what will we do then? Who will pay when high rates on the rich isn’t enough and the middle class is destroyed?
You heard what you wanted to hear. He was saying you wouldn’t vote for him…was he right? It sounds to me like you are very closed minded and it sounds to me like you had disdain for him from even before he made these remarks. Your mind is closed…and you do see YOURSELF as a victim.
“The minimum wage is lower than it’s been since the 1960s, and you want to get rid of it entirely! There is no excuse for this. Corporate profits are at an all-time high.”
The argument is a straw man. Most of the jobs that pay minimum wage are small business jobs. They are entry level jobs that have been historically filled by teenagers and high school graduates that don’t plan to go to college. Obama’s recovery plan has failed them completely:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/16/teen-unemployment-summer-2012_n_1602254.html
Job-hunting teenagers in cities across the United States face the third bleak summer in a row. They must compete for scarce slots in scaled-back government work programs and against adults forced into low-paying positions by the unemployment crisis…
…Teens – often the last hired and first fired – suffered the toughest summers on the job front since World War II in 2010 and 2011. This summer, the outlook is chilly – again.
In April, the U.S. unemployment rate for 16- to 19-year-olds was 24.9 percent – and much higher in some major metropolitan areas.
It may surprise you to know this Chris but not all work is created equal. Some work, busing tables for instance, will only be worth low pay. At some point the prices the owner would need for his food would be higher than the customer will pay…the business will fail! Forcing too high wages on these types of jobs means fewer jobs, higher priced food, or…the dashed dreams of the entrepreneurial restaurateur! People don’t go into business to give money away but they have work that needs to be done and they should be able to offer the work and negotiate pay with the people who apply. At a time like this I imagine there are some people who would gladly buss tables for less than minimum wage…better than no job at all.
“As grateful as I am for my job at Wal-Mart, there is no excuse for them to effectively pay their workers less than they did when the company first started, when their profits are greater today than they’ve ever been.”
How the hell would you know? What experience do you have to make such a stupid uninformed statement? You aren’t grateful at all. You don’t have the slightest interest in the companies point of view, in what it takes to satisfy customers, vendors, bankers, workers and investors. You are, as always, only interested in your own self interests. That’s because you hear the word profit and you think “pocket”. Your victims mindset is narrow and pinched…and grossly simple. They are rich and I am not so they need to give me more.
Unless you have actually run a business and made payroll you have no business attempting to tell the businessmen of America what policies would create more jobs.
We hired a man without experience who promised to “create and save” jobs for the American worker and we see the result…extended unemployment, more people living in poverty and the numbers of people needing food stamps greater than ever before since the depression!
At some point I would think you would begin to rethink your position and become at least mildly interested in the ideas of those who HAVE created jobs and made the economy grow.
But no…instead we get a lot of socialist blather.
Great question Jack! I would think that the trillions we spend educating, feeding, and offering shelter would have resulted in fewer people needing assistance rather than more…silly me.
“Bologna…people do it every day. You live in a bubble Chris. There are people making lives for themselves without a college education all across America.”
How? Exactly?
My understanding is that the “blue collar” class, having lost it union wage (in no small part due to it’s own moronic voting preferences over the last thirty years) is steadily dropping from the middle class, it’s original members eeking out their days on SS (the company having squandered their pensions). And though lots of them sent their kids to college, even just community college, those kids are languishing in “call centers”, sans the union wage, and with virtually no hope of maintaining the material existence their parents enjoyed (briefly).
Tina: “You are, as always, only interested in your own self interests.”
Right. I ask for the minimum wage to go back to being as high as it was in the late 1960s–when MLK Jr. was shot while demanding an even higher minimum wage, BTW–and I’m a greedy, selfish bastard. Romney gets a $4 million tax break, and he’s a friggin’ hero.
Your ideology is so thoroughly corrupt.
I just don’t understand why conservatives are so beholden to the notion that there is a positive correlation between corporate profits and job creation. That’s provably false. Corporate profits are at an all-time high, while the minimum wage is at an all-time low. That is a fact. This should be literally impossible under trickle-down theory. And yet we’re told that if we just tax the rich less and let them get richer and richer, eventually we will all reap the rewards. That. Hasn’t. Happened. There has been no positive correlation between corporate profits and worker’s wages. In fact, there has been a negative correlation. So why do conservatives continue to believe that the rich will hire more and pay better if our country’s policies favor the rich? It just doesn’t make any sense.