Muslim No-Go Zones

aterro254

Posted by Jack, excerpted from the web….

“Despite the scale of the damage, French police have hesitated to make any arrests for fear of sparking more riots. Residents of the neighborhood know the names of the perpetrators but “nobody dares to speak for fear of reprisals.” “You can no longer order a pizza or get a doctor to come to the house.”

The French government has announced a plan to boost policing in 15 of the most crime-ridden parts of France in an effort to reassert state control over the country’s so-called “no-go” zones: Muslim-dominated neighborhoods that are largely off limits to non-Muslims.

The crime-infested districts, which the French Interior Ministry has designated as Priority Security Zones (zones de sécurité prioritaires, or ZSP), include heavily Muslim parts of Paris, Marseilles, Strasbourg, Lille and Amiens, where Muslim youths recently went on a two-day arson rampage that caused extensive property damage and injured more than a dozen police officers.”  End

The first I heard about these No Go Zones was today, but the more I investigated the more shocked I was.  They’re in France and England and they’re often informal neighborhood divisions created by the police on pin maps to show where there presence may spark a riot.  Sometimes these  neighborhoods are marked by fliers or posters for the safety of non-Muslims, lest they venture in unaware and get beaten or worse.

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48 Responses to Muslim No-Go Zones

  1. Chris says:

    Since I’m probably about to be banned I’d like to make one suggestion: perhaps in addition to the “liberal commenters are not allowed to make personal attacks, but conservative commenters are” policy which is working so well for you, perhaps this blog could implement a policy on plagiarism. The first two paragraphs are directly copied and pasted from the Gatestone Institute, a radical anti-Islam organization.

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3305/france-no-go-zones

    As such, I am not sure why this should be counted as “evidence” rather than “propoganda,” and plagiarized propoganda at that.

    • Post Scripts says:

      Chris, holy crap….it was in quotes and I said I took it from the net! That makes it NOT plagiarism! I’m NOT taking credit and I said posted by, NOT written by! What do you want? I’m being stupid for even bothering to reply. Sorry folks.

  2. Pie Guevara says:

    November 2, 2014: Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 ‘No-Go Zones’ By Muslim Criminal Gangs

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/02/swedish-police-release-extensive-report-detailing-control-of-55-no-go-zones-by-muslim-criminal-gangs/

  3. Pie Guevara says:

    This bears repeating —

    ***
    Excerpts from the Daily Mail article “Murders and rapes going unreported in no-go zones for police as minority communities launch own justice systems.”

    Parts of the UK are becoming no-go areas for police because minority communities are operating their own justice systems, according to the Chief Inspector of Constabulary.

    Parts of the UK are becoming no-go areas for police because minority communities are operating their own justice systems, according to the Chief Inspector of Constabulary.

    The rise in ‘community justice’ means crimes as serious as murder and sexual abuse are going unreported – a situation reminiscent of Belfast in the height of the Troubles.

    He said: ‘There are some communities born under other skies who will not involve the police at all. I am reluctant to name the communities in question, but there are communities from other cultures who would prefer to police themselves.
    *** End

    Unlike Sweden and France, these are not police force declared no go zones, they are self imposed no go zones by the members of the cultural zone themselves. Moreover, clearly, the police in the UK are so cowed by being labeled “Islamophobic” that they will not name the predominate culture in the self imposed no go zones.

    This is yet another example of how Islam “integrates” with the countries and governments it invades.

    Lastly, from the same article —

    A spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain said: ‘We all rely on the police to protect our communities and this can be only done through full co-operation and partnership.

    Well, that pretty much identifies what culture is the problem. The problem is that instead of integrating with the police and government, the exact opposite is occurring. Methinks the Muslim Council of Britain spokesman is a duplicitous ass.

  4. Pie Guevara says:

    Just imagine either no go zone scenario (self imposed or police imposed) happening in California —

    Watts, Los Angeles declares itself a no go zone. (Predominately black.) East LA is declared a no go zone by the police commissioner. (Predominately Hispanic.) South of Market, San Francisco, declares itself a no go zone. (Predominately Hispanic.) South Oakland (aka “East Oakland”) is declared a no go zone by the chief of police. (Predominately black.)

    No, I do not expect any of the above communities to actually undergo such changes, even if in some ways some have already done so. This is an attempt to make a point by way of hypothetical exaggeration. (I also expect to be labeled a racist and bigot by the usual morons because I use the above cultural communities by way of example.) But ask yourself, do we really want the sort of intense community Balkinization here in the US that Islam has brought to Europe and the UK? I think not. We have enough community Balkinization as it is, thank you.

    My beloved Grandmother used to wisely say, “Birds of a feather flock together.” However true this is of human nature, it does not mean that we should be giving over to no go zone mini nation states. Sharia can go suck eggs as far as I am concerned. I’ll take our already established form of law making, enforcement, and adjudication thank you. We, above all, should be working to improve our cohesiveness as citizens of, in my humble opinion, the single most significant and decidedly different governmental experiment in liberty and justice in human history. (Yeah, I know, I am a Constitutionalist/USA “rah-rah” despite the many stains in our history, so sue me.) We should not be attempting to further divide ourselves with the forces of what I have come to term “community Balkinization”.

    Of further interest please note that Arab Christians fleeing Muslim dominated nations do not have such issues with integration into their adoptive European countries that Muslims have. Lastly, ISIS has declared the territory it controls a no go zone for journalists and has joyfully spread that vicious disease to France. Some Muslims were in shock, some Muslims were cheering. Who will win, those Muslims disgusted with such outrage or those who encourage it?

    In any case, where goes Islam, so follows terrorism is a fact, not a hypothesis and certainly not “Islamophobia” (a horrid term meant to demean if ever there was one). Perhaps the biggest victims of all are the millions of peaceable Muslims who fled oppressive Islamic states just to have radical Islamo-fascism follow them and thrive in their midst. Perhaps not. Perhaps Western civilization will be the biggest victim. Remember the previous Muslim invasion of Europe which spread Islam by the sword. It was hundreds of years before the Reconquista and Crusades to drive them back. A 781 year long effort, in fact, by Christians to drive back the Moors and out of the Iberian peninsula.

    Don’t like what I have to say about terrorism following Islam? I would be happy to see where contemporary migrating Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Shintos, Christians or any other religion is anywhere near equivalent to the global spread of terror, brutality, oppression, and intolerance that Islam has.

  5. Pie Guevara says:

    Re #1: Chris objects to tit to his tat. Poor baby! Our favorite Muslim suck up is upset. A pants-load of specious complaint if there ever was. What a pathetic brat.

    This is the sort of person some school district entrusts as an educator??? I think not. I think he is a liar wannabe but never will be. If not, he won’t long be.

    His “liberal commenters are not allowed to make personal attacks, but conservative commenters are” is utter tripe. I have always reserved my engagement in the rude and crude fallacy of personal attack on Chris only after he has opened the door by launch his own. And then with gusto!

    Chris, go lick your wounds (or whatever else it is you lick) and stop wasting our and Post Scripts time.

    Jack said it plainly enough in #5, ” I’m being stupid for even bothering to reply.”

    Yep, and so am I. Perhaps it is simply time to ignore this unhappy and angry child of the left.

  6. Tina says:

    Chris writes: “Gatestone Institute, a radical anti-Islam organization”

    “Radical” and “anti-Islam,” because Chris says so?

    What is it about the left that they can criticize or impugn any organization, group, or person they choose but by heavens they will not allow Muslims, including Muslim terror supporters and apologists, or even Muslim terrorists, to be criticized without the criticizer being negatively branded?

    Isn’t that a bit extreme not to mention closed minded?

    Do we need a to create a special name for Muslim terrorists so the left can distinguish between those non-state enemy combatants, agitators, trainers and supporters who do engage in global tyranny and terror and those who do not?

    The word NAZI was liberally applied during and after WWII. Our citizens could talk about the NAZI’s without being branded bigots. The WWII generation had no trouble seeing Hitler for what he was, nor those followed his bidding in the camps.

    This refusal to name dangerous, murdering, tyrants is insanity! Are they incapable of discerning differences?

    The Gatestone Institute, by the way, is a professional think tank with a distinguished panel and a worthy mission:

    … a non-partisan, not-for-profit international policy council and think tank is dedicated to educating the public about what the mainstream media fails to report in promoting:

    Institutions of Democracy and the Rule of Law;
    Human Rights
    A free and strong economy
    A military capable of ensuring peace at home and in the free world
    Energy independence
    Ensuring the public stay informed of threats to our individual liberty, sovereignty and free speech.

    Ambassador John R. Bolton is Chairman. It’s Board of Governors includes American lawyer, professor, writer, and political commentator, Alan Dershowitz. Amir Taheri is the Chairman of the Europe Board of Governors.

    I bookmarked this site. I’m sure I will find thoughtful commentary and good information published there. Scroll down a bit for a story by Khaled Abu Toameh, “What about Arab War Crimes against Palestinians?”

    Now that’s a story main stream media don’t bother to tell! An excerpt:

    The stories of the Palestinians tortured to death in an Arab prison have also failed to win the attention of the Western media. Nor have the EU and the UN, which called for an investigation into the death of Abu Ein — who died of a heart attack while in a confrontation with an Israeli soldier — deemed it necessary to tackle the plight of the Palestinians being killed and tortured to death in Syria and other Arab countries.”

    That would be the second paragraph, in case Chris is worried about plagiarism.

  7. Pie Guevara says:

    Re #8 Tina: “What is it about the left that they can criticize or impugn any organization, group, or person they choose but by heavens they will not allow Muslims, including Muslim terror supporters and apologists, or even Muslim terrorists, to be criticized without the criticizer being negatively branded?”

    Standard tactic. Standard hypocrisy. Standard left win, knee jerk political tedium.

  8. Pie Guevara says:

    More on No-Go Zones and the Islamization of Europe

    In this article by Rowan Scarborough in the Washington Times on the Islamization of France and the no-go zones there, what is boasted by Marwan Muhammed, a spokesman for Collective Against Islamophobia in France, is really quite revealing —

    “Who has the right to say that France in 30 or 40 years will not be a Muslim country? Who has the right in this country to deprive us of it?”

    Silly question, why certainly no one, including the native born citizens of France.

    Get that? The skinny right from THE COLLECTIVE AGAINST ISLAMOPHOBIA IN FRANCE. You gotta love the hip radical left wing sound of that. Right out of the 60’s playbook! Who is going to write the Islamo-fascist version of Tom Wolfe’s 1970 book “Radical Chic & Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers” and study the conflict between Muslim rage and lily white liberal French guilt? (The lily is the national flower of France, the “Fleur-de-lis”. Literally translated “Flower from lily”.)

    I think Chris, who tosses around that precious Politically Correct slur “Islamophobia” like a box of doughnuts in a revolt at a Weight Watcher’s meeting, may have found himself some fancy new allies! Start growing your beard your Lordship, if you aren’t already sporting one, and join the fun! Heck, I might even chip in for one-way plane fair.

    Nothing to fear here you mentally deranged Islamophobes, France is going to be owned by Islam and Islam has that right. Allahu Akbar, baby! Up the Jihad!

    WHAT DO WE WANT?
    FRANCE!
    WHEN DO WE WANT IT?
    NOW!

    Hmmm, I wonder how French natives feel about that statement from the gracious Marwan Muhammed, laissez-faire?

    “Muslims segregated from French society in growing Islamist mini-states” —

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/7/french-islamist-mini-states-grow-into-problem-out-/

  9. Chris says:

    I’m genuinely curious: does anyone have evidence of “Muslim No-Go Zones” that does not come from a right-wing source? I have Googled this and I can’t find anything from a non-partisan source. Every reference to it I can find is from the right-wing blogosphere. There’s nothing on Fact Check or Snopes either.

  10. Tina says:

    Chris what makes you think any left wing source would be interested in publishing anything about these zones? It would be politically incorrect to do so for one thing and for another it might undermine the lefts “peace” agenda which insists we can all get along.

    You still do not get it. The left medias only enemy is the American political right. They side with communist dictators, they side with murderous terrorist support organizations like Hamas and Iran. Bush they will criticize relentlessly for vigorously defending the nation but Obama’s war is A-okay with them. It’s the same on the subject of the economy.

    How can someone who has followed politics through two very different presidents of the two parties fail to see the difference in the tone and focus of reporting during these two presidencies? I don’t know what you would say, I’m sure you’d have some intellectually stitched left thinking excuse, but from my perspective you lack the ability to step back and observe without prejudice and particularly the PC prejudice that prevents you from declaring that we in the West are threatened by radical authoritative voices of Islam and the followers they inspire and direct.

    “Muslim Leaders Declare Aim Of World Domination. Rome, London, Spain, Paris, America, ISIS,” You Tube

  11. Chris says:

    Tina: “Chris what makes you think any left wing source would be interested in publishing anything about these zones?”

    I didn’t ask for a left-wing source. I very clearly asked for a non-partisan source.

    “from my perspective you lack the ability to step back and observe without prejudice and particularly the PC prejudice that prevents you from declaring that we in the West are threatened by radical authoritative voices of Islam and the followers they inspire and direct.”

    Then let me put that inaccurate characterization of myself to rest right now:

    We in the West are threatened by radical authoritative voices of Islam and the followers they inspire and direct.

    I have never denied this, and I have said as much on this blog at least dozens of times.

    Now will you please stop falsely accusing me of refusing to acknowledge this threat?

  12. Pie Guevara says:

    I am curious, why does Chris always discredit what he considers a “right-wing source” just because they are out in front of the left-wing propaganda machine he relies on?

    Give it time, genius. Sooner or later the fools you take your marching orders from will figure it out.

  13. Pie Guevara says:

    Tina, poor Chris just cannot accept the concept that just because what he considers to be a “right-wing source” carries a story does not mean it is nonfactual. Sometimes you have to wonder about this dolt, is there anything between his ears?

    The one reason the extreme left wing news organs Chris depends on do not cover the details of the Islamic social upheaval in France is because those details do not serve their interests. Delay does not hurt and provides time to formulate a strategy and spin to cope with these facts.

    In the early 70’s I did volunteer work at the Berkeley Marxist radio bastion KPFA, part of the left wing network, Pacifica. (KZFR in Chico is a Pacifica station.) At least once a week we would all sit around in the music library and discuss what we were all going to cover and what we were not. What we were going to emphasize and what we were going to ignore. Members of the news department met nearly daily and discussed the same interests.

    Unfortunately Chris is not quite bright enough to figure out why the extreme left wing news organs he champions do not choose to cover this story.

    That, or he is feigning being dumber than a bag of door knobs.

    The left will catch up, they cannot ignore it much longer. And when they do catch up they will do it in be such a way as to minimize the damage to their brow-beating weapon, “Islamophobia” and to keep themselves from looking like fools.

    Just as soon as the left wing news organs Chris so dearly loves decide on the strategy and spin they will follow the reportage will commence.

    Until such time as necessary, ignoring the facts of social upheaval in Europe as a result of the Islamization of Europe does the left wing media no harm.

  14. Pie Guevara says:

    By the way Chris, what non-partisan sources do you wish to see covering these events?

    For my benefit, please be so kind as to name some.

    NPR? HAHAHAHA!
    PBS? HAHAHAHA!
    BBC? HAHAHAHA!
    Pacifica News? HAHAHAHA!
    Associated Press? HAHAHAHA!
    Reuters? HAHAHAHA!
    The New York Times? HAHAHAHA!
    The Puffington Host? HAHAHAHA!
    The Guardian? HAHAHAHA!
    ABCNBCCBS? HAHAHAHA!
    CNN? HAHAHAHA!
    UPI? HAHAHAHA!
    LA Times? HAHAHAHA!
    Boston Globe? HAHAHAHA!

    (I could go on like this forever.)

  15. Pie Guevara says:

    Re #13 Chris :

    Tina: “Chris what makes you think any left wing source would be interested in publishing anything about these zones?”

    I didn’t ask for a left-wing source. I very clearly asked for a non-partisan source.

    Now now Tina, the mean little kid has demanded that you provide him with a non-partisan source. When he barks, you are supposed to jump. Where on earth do you get the temerity not to be at his beck and call, eh Tina? Get snappy! Hut hut! Who do you think gives the orders around here?

  16. Pie Guevara says:

    Fox News is ahead of the curve on the Islamization of Europe and no-go zones too —

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/3978888136001/a-look-at-the-no-go-zones-in-france/?#sp=show-clips

  17. Pie Guevara says:

    Here is a bit of information that I picked up from the Fox News video above and gleaned from the internet from a StartPage search.

    I am not going to cite any sources, if you want sourcing, get your own.

    The French government has identified 751 “No Go” zones which it labels “sensitive urban zones”. These zones are dangerous for whites and non-Muslims to enter.

    ***

    Now, it seems to me that clearly these 751 “sensitive urban zones” are fictional propaganda resulting from right-wing media infiltration of the French government. At this point it should be fairly obvious! They know no bounds! The nefarious right-wing media is seeking world domination and Europe is the current focus of their attack.

    Once Pacifica News learns of this, you can be sure that they will be covering it in depth.

  18. Pie Guevara says:

    The right-wing media is flooding the internet with their vile propaganda about no-go zones, the dirty bigoted, racist Islamophobes! Now I am really getting angry. I have had it with these racist bigots of the right. I STAND WITH CHRIS ON THIS!

    From a blatant, right-wing, Islamophobic, anti-Muslim website I picked up this direct evidence that the right-wing media has infiltrated the French government and is propagandizing from within. These fictional, so-called “sensitive urban zones” (Zones Urbaines Sensibles or ZUS) coming from the right-wing media compromised French government have been published on French government webpages!

    http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/

  19. Pie Guevara says:

    OK, I think I have had enough fun with this for now.

    Hey Chris! Remember all the vile things you have had to say about me the past few days relative to Islam, the Islamization of Europe, and no-go zones? (Libby joined in too once.)

    You may consider this post and the above posts to be a laughing out loud, in your face, go **** yourselves! 😀

    Thanks so much for the entertainment, Chris. I sincerely believe you are one of the most naturally talented unintentional comedians I have ever had the pleasure to watch make an ass of himself.

    Chris, you slay me. 😀

  20. Chris says:

    Pie at #20:

    Thank you for attempting to provide a non-partisan source to justify your claim about Muslim no-go zones.

    However, the French government link you cited doesn’t say anything about Muslim no-go zones. Entering the description of the “sensitive urban zones” into Google Translate, what it says is this:

    “Decree No. 96-1156 of 26 December 1996 establishes the list of 750 sensitive urban zones ( ZUS) . Decree No. 2000- 796 of 24 August 2000 adds the neighborhood “New Mons» Mons- en-Baroeul to the list of Zus and Decree No. 2001-707 of 31 July 2001 amends the scope of Zus Grigny ( 91) .

    Decrees No. 96-1157 and No. 96-1158 of 26 December 1996 fixing the list of 416 Urban Renewal Zones ( ZRU ) among 751 sensitive urban areas ( 396 in France, 20 in the overseas departments ) ”

    I had to then Google “sensitive urban zones” into Google because I didn’t know what it meant. You would have us believe that it means areas where white and non-Muslim citizens, and even police, dare not go. Here is the actual description, from Wikipedia:

    “A sensitive urban zone (ZUS) is an urban area in France defined by the authorities to be a high-priority target for city policy, taking into consideration local circumstances related to the problems of its residents.[1]

    There are 752 sensitive urban zones in France, including 718 in mainland France.[2]

    Nearly five million people live in zones of difficulty.[3]

    Their problems include:

    A high percentage of public housing, with little home ownership.
    High unemployment.
    A low percentage of high-school graduates.
    French Government policyEdit

    A law passed November 14, 1996 created sensitive urban zones (ZUS) and urban tax-free zones (ZFU). 752 of these zones were created in France, including 718 in mainland France.[4] The law of November 14, 1996 (which implements a renewed urban policy) distinguishes three levels of intervention:

    Sensitive urban zones (ZUS)
    Urban renewal zones (ZRU)
    Urban tax-free zones (ZFU)
    The three levels of intervention (ZUS, ZRU and ZFU), characterized by fiscal and social measures of increasing importance, target the difficulties encountered in these districts with differing degrees of response.[5] Contrary to generally accepted ideas, these sensitive districts are in the center of cities and not just the outskirts.[6]

    The situation in these areas in difficulty was (until recently) difficult to evaluate precisely, based on many statistics which were inadequate in certain areas, scattered or badly collected. To remedy these problems and more accurately measure the effect of policy implementation, the National Observatory of Sensitive Urban Zones (ZUS) was created in a law passed on August 1, 2003.[7]

    These ZUS are distributed throughout 490 communes and include 4.7 million inhabitants. Among them a subset of 416 zones of urban renewal (ZRU) was created, including 396 in mainland France. The ZRU contain 3.2 million inhabitants, and present unique challenges. Almost all departments are affected; the only exceptions are nine strongly agricultural departments.[8]”

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_urban_zone

    Now it’s possible that some of these areas are dangerous for non-Muslims, but that’s not what the government source you cited says. It’s also extremely unlikely that all 751 of these are Muslim majority.

    So you still have not provided a non-partisan source to validate the existence of “Muslim no-go zones” that are allegedly so dangerous that even the police don’t venture into them.

    Note that I did not “demand” anything, I merely asked a question. I also already mentioned a few non-partisan sources such as Fact Check and Snopes. And I never said that because a right wing source carries a story, it must be false. These are all strawman arguments that you marshaled against me because you cannot defend your accusations with any real evidence.

    Keep entertaining yourself, Pie.

  21. Chris says:

    Here is an interesting article on some of France’s sensitive urban areas. Unsurprisingly, the main problem seems to be poverty. The article is also fairly recent; the French link Pie cited is nearly twenty years old.

    http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21572248-young-diverse-and-unemployed-forgotten-banlieues

  22. Pie Guevara says:

    Spin Chris spin! See Chris spin!

    Yes Chris, zones identified as dangerous for whites and non-Muslims to enter appear to have been around for 20 years. So? Are all 751 current zones predominately Muslim? Maybe yes, maybe no.

    Now, let us get something straight right now. If you You wish to continue deny the existence of no-go zones (i.e. zones designated as dangerous for whites and NON-MUSLIMS), I don’t really give a crap.

    It should be pretty obvious by now that such zones do exist, but I am not trying to “prove” they do are to you or anyone else. This is not a debate. If you wish to continue to deny they exist, be my guest. If you wish to try and quantify how many do not exist, be my guest. If you wish to keep on making an ass of yourself, be my guest, but puhleese don’t try to drown me in your BS.

  23. Pie Guevara says:

    *YAWN* Poor Chris always lies and misdirects when it suits him. *Some* of the data on the French government web page http://sig.ville.gouv.fr/Atlas/ZUS/ is 20 years old, but not all.

    Points of interest —

    Just because *some* of the zones were designated 20 years ago does not mean that they are not still current nor does it mean that the French government feels the zones shown on the page are out of date.

    Poor Chris, he is *always* seeking some toe hold by which to discredit information provided by others, however niggling. Desperation.

  24. Chris says:

    Pie Guevara: “Yes Chris, zones identified as dangerous for whites and non-Muslims to enter appear to have been around for 20 years.”

    But the zones were not identified as dangerous for whites and non-Muslims to enter by the French government, as you suggested. The list you provided is about zones designated as extremely low income and in need of special attention by police and the government. That’s nearly the exact opposite of what you said they were, which is areas that the police and government have all but given up on, and are now run in accordance with sharia law.

    I don’t expect you to admit your error, since you have a personal grudge against me and your sole goal in acknowledging me is to drive me away with your abusive and hostile comments. Every one of your comments reads like it was written by someone foaming at the mouth with rage, and I continue to be baffled that it’s tolerated here. I would not tolerate any liberal commenter behaving this way if I ran a blog.

  25. Tina says:

    Chris: “I didn’t ask for a left-wing source. I very clearly asked for a non-partisan source.”

    Name one or two, please.

  26. Pie Guevara says:

    Re #26 Chris:

    Fair enough. I am not going to challenge your assertions for now even though I think you are a liar willing to say anything to continue your denial that zones dangerous for whites and non-Muslims to enter have, in fact, been identified by the French government.

    I am not sure how you can make the blanket claim that no zone on that page has ever been marked as a zone dangerous for whites and non-Muslims to enter.

    In any case, I will bide my time for now. I am in no hurry. The truth will out. I believe you will likely be shown full of crap as usual.

    No I do not want to drive you away. I enjoy watching you make an ass out of yourself. You are, of course, completely oblivious to it, which makes your antics even more funny. Pure entertainment.

  27. Tina says:

    Daniel Pipes addressed this issue back in 2006 with updates through 2014. The problem has been growing since the 1990’s. He also provides links to many sources in various countries and a link that lists zones (I think all in France) and provides maps:

    Nov. 28, 2006 update: For an insight into how bad things are, the police in Lyons demonstrated on Nov. 9, denouncing “violence against the forces of order.” Things have reached a pretty sad state when the police have to demonstrate in the streets against the criminals.

    Jan. 5, 2008 update: In a remarkable statement, Michael Nazir-Ali, the Pakistani-born bishop of Rochester, writes in the Daily Telegraph about the situation in Great Britain:

    there has been a worldwide resurgence of the ideology of Islamic extremism. One of the results of this has been to further alienate the young from the nation in which they were growing up and also to turn already separate communities into “no-go” areas where adherence to this ideology has become a mark of acceptability. Those of a different faith or race may find it difficult to live or work there because of hostility to them.

    Jan. 16, 2008 update: Paul Belien of Brussels Journal provides an update on the ZUS, connecting them to organized crime in a way that helps explain police reluctance to intervene:

    In May [2007], the French voters elected Mr. [Nicolas] Sarkozy as president because he had promised to restore the authority of the Republic over France’s 751 no-go areas, the so-called zones urbaines sensibles (ZUS, sensitive urban areas), where 5 million people – 8 percent of the population – live. During his first months in office he has been too busy with other activities, such as selling nuclear plants to Libya and getting divorced. While the French media publish nude pictures of the future (third) Mrs. Sarkozy, the situation in the ZUS has remained as “sensitive” as before.

    People get mugged, even murdered, in the ZUS, but the media prefer not to write about it. When large-scale rioting erupts and officers and firemen are attacked, the behavior of the thugs is condoned with references to their “poverty” and to the “racism” of the indigenous French. The French media never devote their attention to the bleak situation of intimidation and lawlessness in which 8 percent of the population, including many poor indigenous French, are forced to live. Muslim racism toward the “infidels” is never mentioned.

    Xavier Raufer, a former French intelligence officer who heads the department on organized crime and terrorism at the Institute of Criminology of the University of Paris II, thinks that organized crime has a lot to do with the indifference of the French establishment.

    The ZUS are centers of drug trafficking. According to a recent report of the French government’s Interdepartmental Commission to Combat Drug Traffic and Addiction (MILDT) 550,000 people in France consume cannabis on a daily basis and 1.2 million on a regular basis. The annual cannabis consumption amounts to 208 tons for a market value of 832 million euros ($1.2 billion in U.S. dollars). MILDT estimates that there are between 6,000 and 13,000 small “entrepreneurs” and between 700 and 1,400 wholesalers who make a living out of dealing cannabis. The wholesalers earn up to 550,000 euros ($820,000) per year. Since they operate from within the ZUS the drug dealers are beyond the reach of the French authorities.

    The ZUS exist not only because Muslims wish to live in their own areas according to their own culture and their own Shariah laws, but also because organized crime wants to operate without the judicial and fiscal interference of the French state. In France, Shariah law and mafia rule have become almost identical. …(continues…

    …Aug. 22, 2011 update: Soeren Kern returns to this subject with an important overview at “European ‘No-Go’ Zones for Non-Muslims Proliferating.”

    Islamic extremists are stepping up the creation of “no-go” areas in European cities that are off-limits to non-Muslims. Many of the “no-go” zones function as microstates governed by Islamic Sharia law. Host-country authorities effectively have lost control in these areas and in many instances are unable to provide even basic public aid such as police, fire fighting and ambulance services.

    The “no-go” areas are the by-product of decades of multicultural policies that have encouraged Muslim immigrants to create parallel societies and remain segregated rather than become integrated into their European host nations.

    He then surveys developments in the United Kingdom, france, Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Sweden.

    Aug. 4, 2012 update: The French Interior Ministry has created a new type of no-go zone, called Zones de Sécurité Prioritaires (ZSP), or Priority Security Zones. The first batch contains 15 of them, basically the Muslim-majority regions of major cities like Lille, Paris, Strasbourg, Lyons, and Marseilles, as well as in French Guyana. Aug. 24, 2012 update: Soeren Kern explains these new zones in “France Seeks to Reclaim ‘No-Go’ Zones.”

    Nov. 11, 2013 update: Andrew Harrod discusses the problems in Bonn at “Germany’s Sharia No-Go Zones.”

    Oct. 1, 2014 update: The Swedish police published a report on 55 areas of heightened criminal activity under the anodyne title of En nationell översikt av kriminella nätverk med stor påverkan i lokalsamhället (“A national survey of criminal networks with great influence in the local community”). No ethnicity is mentioned but many happen to be regions with Muslim majorities

  28. Pie Guevara says:

    More info on Zones urbaines sensibles (Zus) from 2008

    “In May, the French voters elected Mr. Sarkozy as president because he had promised to restore the authority of the Republic over France’s 751 no-go areas, the so-called zones urbaines sensibles (ZUS, sensitive urban areas), where 5 million people — 8 percent of the population — live.”

    Jan. 16, 2008 Paul Belien, Brussels Journal as appears in the Washington Times

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jan/16/sensitive-urban-areas/

    The French government has another designation for problem zones that is more specific than “Sensitive urban areas” (ZUS). Evidently they are a subset of ZUS designated — Zones de Sécurité Prioritaires (ZSP), or Priority Security Zones.

    Yep Chris, it sure looks like those outrageous claims of right-wing media of the existence of no-go zones in France is really starting to fall apart! (That was sarcasm.)

    Keep your head buried in the sand, dude. Or wherever else you are in a habit of burying it. Your denial is my meat.

  29. Pie Guevara says:

    Dang it Tina, you beat me on the Paul Belien article! I thought it was mine. Grrrr.

    Of course, Tina, you know that Daniel Pipes is just another one of those Islamophobic right-wing nuts, that no-go zones in Europe are myth perpetuated by bigots, and that Chris will prevail in his denial. 😀

  30. Pie Guevara says:

    Here is what is claimed to be a French government map of the Zones de Sécurité Prioritaires (ZSP), or Priority Security Zones I mentioned in #30. Evidently the Priority Security Zones are a subset of the “Sensitive urban areas” (ZUS)

    I have as yet been unable to confirm its validity.

    http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/France-Seeks-to-Reclaim-No-Go-Zones.jpg

  31. Pie Guevara says:

    Oh, now this is just GRAND!

    U.S. Welcoming Islamic Immigrants France Now Regrets Welcoming

    “As terror-torn France and other European countries put curbs on Islamic immigration, the Obama administration is waving foreign Muslim nationals into the U.S. in record numbers.”

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/010815-733901-america-ushers-in-islamic-immigrants-while-france-pulls-up-welcome-mat.htm

  32. Pie Guevara says:

    Fred Fleitz in a panel discussion on Al Jazeera about no-go zones.

    WOW! A true right-wing nutcase being interviewed by the premier right-wing nutcase news organ Al Jazeera. The more I investigate, the more it seems that Chris is right — no-go zones truly are a complete and utter fiction, they do not exist!

    Bio —
    Fred Fleitz, is a Senior Fellow with the Center for Security Policy, a Washington, DC national security think tank. He served for 25 years in national security posts with the Central Intelligence Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency, the State Department, and the House Intelligence Committee staff.

    “It [electronic surveillance] go after these no-go zones where the French government does not seem to have control.”

    http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/inside-story/articles/2015/1/9/paris-attack-highlightsprecariousbalancebetweenlibertyandliabili.html

  33. Pie Guevara says:

    Well, that is enough for now. As far as I am concerned at this point no-go zones completely under the control of Muslims in France are stone cold fact, not fiction as Chris asserts. I expect Chris to continue to cling bitterly to his head-stuck-deeply-somewhere opinion. Why he is so stuck on denial I have no idea and I do not give a rat’s patoot. One thing is certain, Chris could never be accused of having an open mind. It is shut tight as a clam being attacked by a starfish.

    Bottom line –I have no interest in “proving” anything to that moron, but I do enjoy sharing information on Post Scripts. The hand writing is on the wall for those not too blind to see.

    My sense is that not all 721 Zones Urbaines Sensibles (ZUS, Sensitive Urban Areas) are no-go zones under complete control of Muslims and pose a danger to whites and non-Muslims. (I have never asserted that all 721 were danger zones.) It appears though that at least those areas designated Zones de Sécurité Prioritaires (ZSP), or Priority Security Zones, certainly are.

    When Fred Fleitz speaks of no-go zones (see #34 above) I tend to think he is likely better informed than some dysfunctional, left-wing jackass pissant nobody English major with an ego problem and personality disorder.

    Thanks Tina for the #29 info!

  34. Pie Guevara says:

    Correction: the Fred Fleitz quote in #34 should have read, “It [electronic surveillance] will go after these no-go zones where the French government does not seem to have control.”

  35. Chris says:

    Tina: “Name one or two, please.”

    I have done this twice, in Comment #11 and Comment #22. Snopes and Fact Check are both non-partisan sources that I checked for info on “Muslim no-go zones.” French government sources would also be helpful; Pie cited one, but it didn’t actually say anything about “Muslim no-go zones.”

    “He also provides links to many sources in various countries and a link that lists zones (I think all in France) and provides maps:”

    Tina, the link that lists zones is the same one Pie already cited. It does not say a single thing about “Muslim no-=go zones.” It is a list of areas with high poverty and unemployment that have been listed as a priority for urban renewal projects. To claim that all of these are “751 Muslim no-go zones” is simply dishonest; some of them may be avoided by cops, and some of them may be majority Muslim, but there is no way that all of them are. And again, that list is from 1996.

  36. Chris says:

    Pie: “Of course, Tina, you know that Daniel Pipes is just another one of those Islamophobic right-wing nuts,”

    Yes, that’s correct.

    Kudos for citing Al Jazeera. But what you cited was a series of interviews with experts from a variety of political backgrounds. The only person to mention “no go zones” was a man from the Center for Security Policy, a right-wing think tank with a history of inflammatory statements about Muslims.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_for_Security_Policy

    I hardly see how that makes Muslim no go zones a “stone cold fact.”

    I’m not saying they don’t exist. I’m saying I haven’t seen reliable evidence for them.

    Tina, will you answer my question for you I asked earlier? You said that due to my “PC prejudice” I was unable to declare “that we in the West are threatened by radical authoritative voices of Islam and the followers they inspire and direct.”

    I then said exactly that: We in the West are threatened by radical authoritative voices of Islam and the followers they inspire and direct.

    I asked you if you would now stop accusing me of being unable to acknowledge this threat. Will you?

  37. Pie Guevara says:

    Tina,

    What the great stupid one cannot figure out is —

    1) The zone list is the current list in use even if some of it was established by law nearly 20 years ago.

    2) The French government does not openly advertise the fact that it has no control over certain areas of the country.

  38. Tina says:

    A reminder/entreaty with portions highlighted as a means of support:

    2. …example of the ER’s rules would be deliberately name calling, libel, vulgarities, or threats of violence

    3. Post Scripts is mostly self policing, commenters are expected to abide by the rules and use good taste and that allows us time to bring you interesting articles.

    4. There may come a time when it’s necessary for Post Scripts personnel to invoke censorship, but being a censor is not what we signed on to do. We hate doing that, it runs against the grain, so we give you wide latitude, but when necessary see #2 and #3.

    I will add that giving “wide latitude” isn’t permission to ignore the standards.

    Please don’t waste our time with pot shots and tattling.

    All should know that the value of our comments is never found in calling names or playing hall monitor.

  39. Tina says:

    Chris: “I asked you if you would now stop accusing me of being unable to acknowledge this threat. Will you?”

    I would except for the fact that you continue to try to discredit reliable sources by maligning them which in my opinion undermines the sincerity of your words.

    What is it with you? You are given full voice on these pages. Instead of taking information in and considering it for yourself you seem to think its up to you to decide what is valuable and what is not and inform the rest of us. We are quite capable of doing that for ourselves. We know we will often not come to the same conclusions. So what!

    It becomes increasingly tiresome to do battle with you over sources. This is as useless as name calling, maybe more so, because it distracts from the subject at hand and intrudes in the discussion.

    Geez it’s like kindergarten…come on people.

  40. Pie Guevara says:

    Evidently the great stupid vicious one whose long habit has been to toss about vile slurs including “bigot” and “racist” has a problem and wishes to hide under the skirts of the very person he attacks with such slurs.

    I don’t have a problem with that. It’s hilarious.

  41. Pie Guevara says:

    Addendum to #43: And kinda cute.

  42. Chris says:

    Pie: “great stupid vicious one”

    Pie, see Comment #41, specifically rule #2.

    Tina: “I would except for the fact that you continue to try to discredit reliable sources by maligning them which in my opinion undermines the sincerity of your words.”

    This is called “moving the goalposts.” First you said I refused to acknowledge the threat, even though I have acknowledged the threat many times. Then I acknowledged the threat once again. Now you are saying this isn’t good enough because I think your sources are unreliable? That doesn’t make any sense; those two ideas aren’t even connected in any way.

    “We are quite capable of doing that for ourselves.”

    Even though you frequently link to white nationalist sources? That doesn’t make you stop and reconsider your capabilities in determining which sources are reliable?

  43. Chris says:

    From Bloomberg Business:

    Nigel Farage, head of Britain’s anti-immigrant U.K. Independence Party, asserted on Jan. 13 that there were no-go zones “right across Europe. We have got no-go zones across most of the big French cities,” he told Fox News. Another Fox commentator, Nolan Peterson, has been posting online reports this week saying that some 750 areas in France have been “marked as off-limits by French authorities, restricting access by police and other emergency services.”

    While the British were outraged, the French simply seem amused. Paris social-media wags have already posted a guide to “eating and drinking in the no-go zones,” which happen to include some of the city’s trendy gentrifying neighborhoods.

    In fact, France does maintain a list of 750 “sensitive” neighborhoods. Far from being considered “off limits” to authorities, they’ve been designated as priority areas for urban renewal and other forms of state aid.

    “That’s pretty funny,” says Hait Abbas, a non-practicing Muslim who runs a wine shop in a Paris neighborhood among those identified by Peterson as a no-go zone. Far from being Muslim-dominated, the neighborhood near the Gare du Nord train station bustles with Italian delis, African hair-braiding shops, and Chinese massage parlors. If it’s governed by Islamic law, Abbas says, “I guess I better cut my hand off.”

    Where did the story of the no-go zones come from? Daniel Pipes, a U.S. historian and political commentator, says he believes he was the first person to refer to disadvantaged French neighborhoods as no-go zones. In a 2006 article, he said the existence of the zones suggested “that the French state no longer has full control over its territory.”

    Pipes now says he was mistaken. In 2013, after traveling to several listed Paris neighborhoods and mainly immigrant and Muslim areas of five other European cities, he wrote: “For a visiting American, these areas are very mild, even dull. We who know the Bronx and Detroit expect urban hell in Europe, too, but there things look fine … hardly beautiful, but buildings are intact, greenery abounds, and order prevails. … Having this first-hand experience, I regret having called these areas no-go zones,” he wrote.

    In an e-mail to Bloomberg Businessweek today, Pipes says that a no-go zone “is a place where the government has lost control and cannot enforce the rule of law.” There are, he now says, “no European countries with no-go zones.”

    …As with many urban legends, there are grains of truth in this one. Many French Muslims live in tough, isolated neighborhoods and have faced discrimination in housing and employment. Sometimes, police are afraid to respond to calls from dangerous neighborhoods in France and elsewhere. A few years ago, an Islamist group in Britain demanded that the government establish autonomous sharia-governed zones in some cities. The government swiftly outlawed the group, and it hasn’t been heard from since.

    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2015-01-14/debunking-the-muslim-nogo-zone-myth

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