The Uncomfortable Truth

Yes, Q. Abortion gets far more attention on the national scene than it deserves.

But we live in a country where politicians are willing to put our lives at risk so they can make political points; squabbling and blaming each other as an attempt to win another election.

We have enemies and appeasement will not make them stand down.

"Last week the Supreme Court ruled that sticking a pair of scissors into a baby’s skull seconds before birth was a proper thing for the US Congress to legislate." QC

Quentin, you raised an interesting issue here and that compelled me to do some research. I quickly found this tidbit that I'll toss out as just food for thought, "Justice Thomas, writing the main dissent for himself, Chief Justice Rehnquist, and Justice Scalia, stating: "Abortion is a unique act, in which a woman's exercise of control over her own body ends, depending on one's view, human life or potential human life. Nothing in our Federal Constitution deprives the people of this country of the right to determine whether the consequences of abortion to the fetus and to society outweigh the burden of an unwanted pregnancy on the mother. Although a State may permit abortion, nothing in the Constitution dictates that a State must do so."

Interesting isn't it?

Ok, that being said, maybe an argument in support of hearing an abortion case could be made under the 8th Amendment, "cruel and unusual punishment" clause or that we hold that all citizens enjoy a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Right to life...for all citizens...hmmmm, would a 9 month old fetus that could live outside the womb be a citizen? If so, should we conclude that fetus be protected from death by abortion? I think so...unfortunately, I just don't have the time right now to find out what arguments they used to get this latest abortion case before the SC, but I would like to know.

I tend to agree with you that state's rights are a very important part of this issue too.

Next, you said, "I believe abortion to be a sin. I also believe God forgives sins, so who am I....to judge others?" This subject is not quite so ambigious. The Bible clearly empowers us all to judge the acts of others. This is one of the most commonly misunderstood elements of the Bible and Christianity because of one passage where Jesus protects the woman from being stoned and even that passage is often misunderstood. Yes, of course we can judge, however else do we hold people accountable for anything? lol I could quote you so many passages in the Bible now to prove it, it would bore you to tears, so I won't. Just know...you can and should judge others to define good from evil, right from wrong...we do it all the time.

I'll do some more thinking on this abortion issue and see what else I can find. If I can shed any more light on the subject I will pass it along..., again, great subject for a debate!

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Thank you for reading and of course, for writing.
However I dare say you misunderstood the thesis of my essay.
Abortion is NOT a great subject for debate.
In the time it took to read your comments, the Chinese purchased over a million dollars worth of American securities.
Now THAT is something to debate!

No, actually I don't think I misunderstood your premise and I still think it's a good subject for debate. I would have to disagree that it's clearly less important than the topic of debt to the Chinese. Human life as it relates to abortion is a top moral priority and it defines us as a people.

As you may know...I am a strong advocate for extreme late term abortions....I would like to see how they turn out before we give them the death sentence. Say give them to around age 35 and then if circumstances warrant it,...then we can wack em (or send them to Devils Island or something). What do you think...good plan?

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Let me see . . . . . the percentage of Americans who get abortions in any year is less than one-half of one percent. The number of Americans who would be affected if the Chinese called in their markers is one hundred percent. America won't have any morality to define when that happens.
Preferring not to be part of a solution makes you part of the problem.

Quentin, I know Congress is pretty simple, but even they can consider a couple of hot button issues at once. lol

As for abortion being such a small number, I find it odd that most liberals would argue, if even one innocent person is wrongly executed, it's a total outrage, it's one person too many! And for that reason, we should do away with capital punishment?
But, the same crowd seems to think a million abortions a year is ok?

Sorry, but I don't get their reasoning. And now you are saying the annual deaths of a million unborn babies a year(1)is small time compared to debt we owe China?

Hmmmm... Quentin, with all due respect, I wouldn't want to try to defend that one.

(1) According to the Bio-Ethical Reform site, the number of abortions in 1996 was 1.37 million in the USA. The CDC said that in 2000 we had approximately 857,000 abortions. That's a lot of abortions! And whether you are pro-life or pro-choice, don't you think we ought to work to try to bring this number down?

Legislating out late term abortions, where there is no compelling medical issues, is probably a step in the right direction. And on your side, we can also do other things like our trade deficit with other countries.

I'll give you the final word now.

Quentin,

I'm not trying to pigeon-hole you, but I'm beginning to think maybe you're a libertarian? Just curious.
First off, I agree abortion gets more attention than it should. I know people who will base their vote for candidates entirely on this one issue, while ignoring many other issues that matter greatly to our country.
I have pondered this issue though. When I was young abortion seemed a reasonable safeguard against pregnancy. Having grown up, I believe it is wrong. No matter what the inconvenience to the mother, abortion is still the killing of an innocent life, and I would lean more towards Jack's position that we can actively seek to stop the killing of innocent lives.
However, what really interests me right now is your fixation on China. Are we really that bad in debt to them? What happens with this debt if we can't pay it? Do they get control of Congress or just our treasury? Seriously, I don't understand the issue of foreign debt and/or the consequences.

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Thank you again for writing, Dane!
A lot of people try to tell me I'm a Libertarian--except my Libertarian friends.
My essay, "Liberalism Defined," spells out what I consider myself--a Jeffersonian Liberal.
Depending who you ask, China holds between one and four trillion dollars of our total debt. Even if it's the smaller amount, don't forget the old joke, "Borrow a thousand from the bank and the bank owns you, borrow a million from the bank and you own the bank. That's why I worry. To be sure, there are other countries besides China, but China has always had imperial ambitions, plus they have zero respect for human life.
A country having this much debt is unprecedented in history, so I cannot predict what will happen, but I am sure it won't be good. Remember post--WW I Germany? Massive foreign debt is never a good thing for a country.
And for sure, what will eventually happen to this country will be a lot worse than any abortion.
I too, think we should stop the taking of human life, but let's fix the big problems first. They are more important.

"There's faith that knows itself as faith, Proyas, and there's faith that confuses itself for knowledge. The first embraces uncertainity, acknowledges the mysteriousness of the God. It begets compassion and tolerance. Who can entirely condemn when they're not entirely certain they're right? But the second, Proyas, the second embraces certainity and only pays lip service to the God's mystery. It begets intolerance, hatred, violence..."

Regarding abortion, it is usually misunderstood. This is because everyone imagines that a woman (or man), totally wants or totally does not want the pregnancy. The truth is more unsettling: people both want and do not want at the same time, this is ambivalance, and it is a key feature of abortion, and many other human situations. I am indepted to Professor P G Ney for this insight which was very freeing.

Society does not need more children; but it does need more loved children. Quite literally, we cannot afford unloved children - but we pay heavily for them every day. There should not be the slightest communal concern when a woman elects to destroy the life of her thousandth-of-an-ounce embryo. But all society should rise up in alarm when it hears that a baby that is not wanted is about to be born. ~Garrett Hardin

Of course abortion isn't right. But it is even less right to bring unwanted children into lifelong suffering and to strip women of their choice. Making abortion illegal is not the way to prevent it. There is a much larger picture that starts with much deeper roots. ~Anonymous
No woman wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg. ~Frederica Mathewes-Green

GREAT POST!! I will most definitely be coming back for more!!