Posted by Tina
Union members are at it again today protesting higher wages from McCdonalds franachisers already struggling in the lousiest economy since the Great Depression. The greedy buggers are demanding $15.00 an hour from businesses that have to fight for a measly 5% profit margin in an atmosphere of rising costs. But the Independent Journal Review has a warning for them. Since the President raised the minimum wage for government contractors stores are closing on military bases:
Four restaurants, including three McDonald’s outlets, will close within the next three weeks on Navy installations, according to Navy Exchange Service Command officials.
And two other contractors — a name-brand sandwich eatery and a name-brand pizza parlor — have asked to be released from their Army and Air Force Exchange Service contracts to operate fast food restaurants at two other installations, according to AAFES officials.
Those that remain have indicated that they will stay open by replacing their workers with machines.
It’s difficult to fathom; what makes a progressive believe he can get anything he wants, including cold hard cash, just because he wants it. He doesn’t have to do a thing to produce the wealth he just has to hold a virtual gun to his bosses head. (The only use of a symbolic gun allowable) in the lefty world.
Workers who want a wage they can live off of = greedy, business owners who complain about paying workers a wage they can live off of = noble, virtuous John Galts who are being persecuted by their own employees.
This sounds like a philosophy that will take Republicans far in the next election!
“Workers who want a wage they can live off of”
I want…I want…I want! And because I want you have to give it to me whether you can afford it or not! How would that work in your job Chris?
A philosophy that asserts it is not up to the low skilled people to get better skills and abilities but up to a franchisee owner to just hand over more cash is a dead philosophy…it can’t possibly work!
Where do you think the owners will get the money Chris? Where will the money come from for these $15.00 hamburger flipper jobs and the added taxes and insurances? Keep in mind that $15.00 an hour for a burger flipper will then drive up manager pay too!
Until you’ve walked in the shoes of a fast food franchisee you have no idea what it’s like.
“This sounds like a philosophy…blah blah blah”
It would if your opinion were even remotely accurate. Instead it is the ranting of a spoiled brat.
This is not about philosophy, Chris. It is about the hard cold reality in the adult world. You my friend think like a kid who still believes in Santa.
Do some homework before shooting off at the mouth and you might realize the owners don’t make all that much for the hours and investment they put in. Readers with an adult mind should know:
In other words they earn every dime!! And they don’t have much time for family or Friday night poker.
The suggestion (demand) that they should be forced to pay low and no skill workers more than their budgets will allow is insane!
And Chris, yours is a philosophy that comes straight out of the communist manifesto…a system in which monied elites suck the life and livelihoods out of the general populace and pass it off as a “fair” and “equitable” system. Your is a political philosophy that uses people rather than helping them to improve themselves and their lives.
What these franchisees offer is an opportunity. Its appropriate work for young people that have never worked before, college students, older folks that just need something to do, and moms that want a few extra bucks working part time while the kids are in school.
Anyone who thinks this type of job is a career deserving of a so-called “living wage” (a political fabrication) has been badly educated and informed…and shame on those who mislead them!
They need to be told that to make more money they will need to learn a skill or get more education…and work hard.
This is America for heavens sake, we value Freedom! Property rights! Personal choice and discretion! And personal responsibility! We value and appreciate individual grit and determination…people come here for that not a handout!
Chris, get real.
Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour will do nothing to help.
Even $15 an hour before taxes is not enough to live off of.
All raising the minimum wage will do is eliminate more lower rung jobs that people use to get the experience to move up to higher paying jobs.
And this article is just one example of that.
Appear?
Nicely done Bob.
Tina: “The suggestion (demand) that they should be forced to pay low and no skill workers more than their budgets will allow is insane!”
“No skill workers?” What is that supposed to mean? What kind of dumbass employer would hire a worker with no skills?
The fact is that if a worker is a net benefit to their employer, they should be adequately compensated. Unions are simply groups of workers who band together to make sure they are being paid the value of their work. What we have seen over the past few decades is the actual value of work going up (look at the stats on worker productivity), while actual income has gone down. How is that the American Dream?
You are downplaying and degrading the skills of min wage workers in order to justify this despicable circumstance. You tell workers to just “learn new skills” and “get more educated,” but you ignore the fact that min. wage workers have already tried that, and it didn’t work. The average min. wage worker is more skilled and more educated than the generation prior, and they are still making less money!
You started out at a time when the min. wage was effectively higher than it was today. You are arguing that my generation should not receive the same benefits and protections that yours did. You have forgotten where you come from and you reserve all your empathy for People Like You, other business owners, and have none left for workers. You characterize the desire to earn a min. wage that was equivalent to that earned by our grandparents and selfish, whiny, and ungrateful. Sad.
Republicans have no idea what will create jobs. You keep saying that if we just take even more power away from workers and give even more power to bosses and corporations, those bosses will just create more jobs…what, out of the goodness of their hearts? Why would an employer create a single new job unless there is DEMAND for that job? Employers don’t create demand; only consumers do that. The reason our economy is in the dumps right now is because consumers don’t have enough money to spend. Raise the minimum wage back to 1968 levels, and they will.
Chris: “What kind of dumbass employer would hire a worker with no skills? ”
Well gee Chris you had better hope small businesses like fast food franchisees because we ALL start out as no skill workers. Teenagers still in high school and drop outs that have never had a job not only have no skills but often are unreliable…they need training! Every time one of them quits the managers face another training situation. They hire these people because they can’t afford to pay people who have skills and are moving on to jobs where the pay is higher!
“The fact is that if a worker is a net benefit to their employer, they should be adequately compensated. ”
Yeah, commensurate with what the business can manage! What the hell is the matter with you? The ability to pay a higher wage varies by area. Fast food businesses in North Dakota were paying their employees $17.00 an hour. They could do that because the oil business sparked lots of business and the highly paid workers didn’t mind a higher priced burger. Businesses located in small towns or places lacking in highly skilled/paid workers, the Central Valley couldn’t manage that.
“Unions are simply groups of workers who band together to make sure they are being paid the value of their work”
I don’t have a problem with that. I have problem when the union demands a wage that will bankrupt the business. That’s exactly what the UAW did at a time when American companies had fierce and growing competition in the world. Their ignorance caused them to price themselves out of a lot of jobs.
“What we have seen over the past few decades is the actual value of work going up (look at the stats on worker productivity)…”
In many cases the greater productivity has more to do with technology than harder work. New skill sets, working with a computer rather than a cash register or a pad of paper, doesn’t necessarily translate to higher wages…it certainly doesn’t in the fast food realm. High tax and regulation costs, high energy costs, higher rents are taking a bigger bite. Higher wages will be possible only when states reform and become servants of the people again…right now they (blue states) are operating like billion dollar corporations and taking too much out of the economy. We won’t have more jobs or better pay until governments get out of the way.
“You are downplaying and degrading the skills of min wage workers in order to justify this despicable circumstance.”
You don’t know what you’re talking about! You don’t have an actual experience of running a business so you still think that a business owner is rolling in doe and can pull cash out of his #$$ at the drop of a hat.
“You tell workers to just “learn new skills” and “get more educated,” but you ignore the fact that min. wage workers have already tried that, and it didn’t work.”
Chris if you have met people like this then you have been willing to buy their story. What is likely true is that they are the kind of person who gets in his own way. A lot of people, even fairly successful people, have sometimes developed a habit of giving up in life or not trying hard enough. They are easily defeated and haven’t learned to be resourceful. Franchisees offer people like this a way to begin. If they show they are eager to learn, treat customers well and are reliable they will probably become assistant manager material and move up in the pay scale and position themselves to get a job in a business that has the profit margins to pay higher wages.
“The average min. wage worker is more skilled and more educated than the generation prior, and they are still making less money!
The only reason the people you are talking about are even applying for these jobs is because our economy since 2007 when the recession began has been a depression era economy! The policies adopted by this administration killed the recovery that could have begun in 2009 when the recession was officially over! There are not enough jobs…that’s the problem!
You started out at a time when the min. wage was effectively higher than it was today.
I was lucky…that doesn’t change a thing…sorry. I have grandchildren, Chris. Do you think I don’t care about their futures? I have older kids that are in their prime years for saving for retirement…this hasn’t been good for them either. In fact there has been a lot of lost opportunity for all but the very rich.
My parents paid a lot less in SS/Mcare than my generation has had to pay so I was unlucky in that instance. We also took care of aging parents (rather than putting them in homes) for a longer time. This at a time when we were faced with college aged kids (that didn’t qualify for aid). Every generation has a challenge of some kind. It’s unfortunate that so many, in both of our generations, don’t understand how wealth is created and how wealth creation by individuals means more prosperity for everyone!
“You have forgotten where you come from and you reserve all your empathy for People Like You, other business owners, and have none left for workers.”
Sure…you know all about me. The truth is you haven’t got a clue. I treat my own employees well. I have given countless college students the opportunity to have flexible hours, decent wages, better working conditions than fast food, and when I can afford it sizable bonuses. I can only do that in a good economy and when government doesn’t suck up too much of my profits and force other costs, like energy, up.
The thing that is sad is that you have managed to get a college degree and you don’t have even the most basic ability to see something in a larger, more inclusive context. You see everything through a prism of conflict and activism and no matter how many times I patiently try to explain to you the hard realities that face small business you refuse to get it…you refuse because in the view through that prism the only explanation is that the business owner is a greedy b-tard. I told you my business is down by 2/3rds and you coldly claim the reason is that I am bad at business…I don’t think you mean to be but Chris, you are acting like a real jerk. And because of your ignorance and prejudice you will, along with others who are similarly wired, will send the same type of people to office that have delivered 1-2% growth and massive unemployment with the 1% making out like crazy.
Sad indeed!
Chris: “You keep saying that if we just take even more power away from workers and give even more power to bosses and corporations, those bosses will just create more jobs…what, out of the goodness of their hearts?”
No moron.
A. It isn’t a matter of power transfer. I can’t take power from an employee. He has a choice and so do I. Together we either decide the job is worth it to him and to me, or he isn’t what I’m looking for or wants more than I can pay, or he tells me sorry I’m looking for something better and moves on to the next opportunity.
B. Most employers do enjoy hiring people. It’s one of the satisfactions of being successful. Small businesses (often) are like family. Some make enough in profits to be able to have yearly picnics for employees and their families, Christmas Parties and even give bonuses both large and small.
“Why would an employer create a single new job unless there is DEMAND for that job? ”
An employer only has the number of jobs required to to get the work done.. Employers are not welfare offices. He faces shortage and demand issues too! When there is no demand for his product or service guess what? A lousy economy will not produce buyers for his product or service because when fewer people have jobs, when all businesses face higher energy, tax, and regulation costs business s-l-o-w-s to a s-l-u-g-g-i-s-h pace.
“Employers don’t create demand; only consumers do that.”
Not when they don’t have jobs. Not when they are college grads working minimum wage fast food and still living with mom. Not when government is sucking the life out of the economy with redistribution schemes.
“The reason our economy is in the dumps right now is because consumers don’t have enough money to spend.”
And employers don’t have enough money to hire!
“Raise the minimum wage back to 1968 levels, and they will.”
WRONG! Especially in this economy small businesses that pay minimum wage don’t have the money. This would hurt poor people by eliminating jobs and struggling stores. It would push franchisee owners to mechanize or raise prices or both.
“Republicans have no idea what will create jobs.”
I saved this for last…it’s very important for everyone to get this. Ronald Reagan inherited a similar recession from Carter…some economists say it was worse because inflation had pushed interest rates so high. To get the economy going he borrowed an idea from JFK and changed the tax structure and rates and worked to simplify regulations.
In just a single month businesses created one million jobs. The Reagan record on jobs creation and the economy was incredible!
Republicans DO KNOW how to create jobs. We also like people and want them to succeed.
I think Post Scripts should change its name to “The Tina and Chris Show.”
Real Clear Markets:
Learned something today. I had always heard Henry Ford payed his people more so they could afford to buy his cars. This explanation makes even more sense.
Chris: “Why would an employer create a single new job unless there is DEMAND for that job?”
Chris there is an overabundance of demand for jobs and has been for over five years…hasn’t turned the economy around yet!
What were you thinking? Do you think demand in the demand side of economics is a demand for jobs? Chris…demand is consumer’s with money to burn. Policies in DC are killing the job creators.
Politifact checked the numbers asserted by Rob Portman and concluded that 2.6 percent of Americans earned the minimum wage in 2012.
This is a political ploy. This is a union ploy. It will hurt people who need jobs.
roughly 2.6 percent of all American workers were earning the minimum wage in 2012.
Pie I don’t know whether to defend Jack, laugh…we do go on, or hang my head…what am I to glean from your remarks?
Want further proof the world wide recession is worse today than it was six years ago? Just look at the number of unsold cars on Google maps.
Where the World’s Unsold Cars Go To Die:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-16/where-worlds-unsold-cars-go-die
Pie, this is the first good idea I’ve ever heard from you. Tina, I’m thinking a radio show in the vein of the old “Hannity and Colmes.” Whaddya say? 😉
If you could get the gig and a contract, Chris, I’d consider it…won’t hold my breath 🙂
Dewey you’re not keeping up. It isn’t the CEO who has to meet payroll for the local fast food business. The fast food stores are private businesses that “rent” the brand. The local guy only averages around $40K – $50K a year…and he has to pay both sides of the SS and MCare tax on his earnings.
As I wrote above, these jobs only represent a little over 2% of total jobs. People usually move out of them to a better job fairly quickly. There would be no measurable difference in the economy from this and it could harm poor people who need these jobs the most.
This is the kind of small idea…targeted idea…that progressives always have, though.
We need something that would much more dramatically affect the overall economy; something that sets business owners and entrepreneurs free. I can think of two or three things that would have that effect…and I can’t wait to see it happen.
Re #18 Chris : Whatever floats you boat.
Re #18 Chris : By the way, we are not laughing with you, we are laughing at you.
Decent Salary, a minimum wage proposal was roundly rejected by 76.3% of Swiss Voters.
It’s shaping up to be a very positive week!
This has to be one of the most stupid things I have ever read, “Employers don’t create demand; only consumers do that. The reason our economy is in the dumps right now is because consumers don’t have enough money to spend.”
See #9 Chris.
Low wages at the nation’s 10 largest fast-food companies — which typically hover about a dollar above the federal minimum wage — cost taxpayers $3.8 billion per year, because workers have to rely on government assistance to get by, according to a recent study by the National Employment Law Project.
At the same time workers claim they’re struggling, McDonald’s CEO pay is being subsidized through a tax loophole that is actually the result of a backfired effort to limit executive pay, according IPS’ Anderson. In 1993, Congress capped the amount of pay companies could deduct from their tax bill at $1 million, but lawmakers left a loophole in place that lets companies deduct unlimited amounts of performance-based pay, like stock options and certain types of bonuses, from their tax bill.
“It led to this explosion of huge stock-options grants,” Anderson said. “That reform is really pointed to as one reason why CEO pay has exploded so much in the past couple of decades.”
Indeed, CEO pay has grown 127 times faster than worker pay over the past 30 years, according to a May 2012 report.
Despite the discrepancy between McDonald’s CEO Don Thompson’s $13.8 million compensation package and the $8.94 hourly average pay for a fast-food worker, Thompson claims the company isn’t exploiting its workers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/03/mcdonalds-ceo-pay_n_4372972.html
D. Smith thank you for joining our discussion about minimum wage law.
The problem with the argument you have put forth is that CEO pay has nothing to do with local, privately owned stores that franchise the corporate brand. CEO’s make their money by building the brand in competition with others and increasing the number of outlets across the globe.
The local stores where you buy a burger are small independent franchise businesses. Their margin of profit is very low and already under pressure from rising food and energy prices. They cannot afford higher minimum wages, especially in this very bad economy. Raising the minimum wage for these small stores will lead to layoffs, fewer hours, fewer benefits, and/or higher prices to the customer.
WashingtonPolicy.org:
In a good economy these low wage jobs are generally filled with high school and college students who move on to better jobs within 2 years. These jobs are not EVER going to provide a good living for an individual much less a family and no one should think of that fast food job as a career. Minimum wage jobs are a way to get started in the work force and nothing more.
The cost we are bearing as taxpayers to supplement these low wage earners are a result of their inability to move on to better paying jobs due to high unemployment and a lousy economy. What is needed are policy changes in Washington, and in California, that would encourage growth and innovation and usher in an era of greater prosperity for everyone. In that kind of atmosphere low wage earners can quickly gain a little experience and move on to better paying jobs.
Low wage earners should look for ways to improve their individual prospects. Going back to school or finding a job that has on the job training are two suggestions.
The great thing about America is that any person can pursue his dreams and acquire some level of wealth. Wealth is not a fixed sum that we divide up and share. Wealth can be grown.
The man who started Starbucks grew up poor in the projects in Brooklyn. He’s worth $2 billion dollars today because he built that wealth by dreaming of something better, taking some risks, and working very hard to build a small coffee shop and an idea into a worldwide brand.
Instead of mandating wages the government should look for ways to get out of the way so that entrepreneurs and companies can create more opportunities for Americans who need and want work.
Missed this earlier …
Re: #13 Tina : “Pie I don’t know whether to defend Jack, laugh…we do go on, or hang my head…what am I to glean from your remarks?”
Oh, dear, don’t go hanging your head! Mine was just an observation and a friendly chide. Chris, of course, who already thinks this is his personal blog, is all for a name change.
The point of fact is that if Chris did write his own blog, no one would read it. I happen to think you give him far more attention than he deserves, but hey, who am I to judge? Without you, Tina, Chris would be a big fat nothing. Well, he still is a big fat nothing but at least he is a big fat nothing who gets some of the attention he so craves.
No, no, no, I am not saying that you should abandon your exchanges with this lunatic. Obviously you are having fun with it. It is not my intent to discourage you with a flippant remark only meant to garner a laugh.
Glad you cleared that up, Pie.
Of course now the situation has changed somewhat. I no longer see a reason to engage Chris even when he does come around, which he has apparently decided to do only on a limited basis.
His personal need to “fix” me has overwhelmed the conversation and, at least from my perspective, is arrogant and rude especially since he has been given full voice to rebut and correct anything he believes to be in error.
Keep the observations coming, I do enjoy your comments. If I have a question, I’ll just ask.