Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.
If scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.
Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That’s no offense; it’s a freedom scene..
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.
For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all..
In silence alone we must meditate,
God’s name is prohibited by the state.
We’re allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks…
They’ve outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the ‘unwed daddy,’ our Senior King.
It’s ‘inappropriate’ to teach right from wrong,
We’re taught that such ‘judgments’ do not belong..
We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles…
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.
It’s scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school’s a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!
Amen
Dear Lord.
Chris, this poem was attributed to a student in the 8th grade. Pretty good, if that’s the case.
Not everything from the mouths of babes is, “like wow, man”. Some of it is pure naivete and ignorance. However, adults should know better. Too many in the sixties generation just never grew up.
Liberal snarky remarks aside, below could be considered a typical representation of what the current Liberal Government is trying to remove from Schools, assemblies and other federally funded, tax dollar controlled gatherings:
Dear God, Thank you for the gift of our children. Please watch over them as they go back to school this year. Keep them safe every day. Help them to remember that you are right there with them in the halls and classrooms. Help them soak up good knowledge and to dismiss any negative or worldly messages they may hear. Help them treat others with kindness and respect, and to guard their hearts with the armor of Your Word. Give them joy and peace as they put their trust in you.
And Lord, bless them with teachers that honor you and their profession! Amen
Intertwined also is the pledge of Allegiance, excluding “in God we trust”
And don’t even think “God Bless America” out-loud any more, unless your legal team is on a fixed retainer
Harold I like your prayer.
Jack that one eight grader well on his way to adulthood!
Oh. Well, in that case, pretty well-written for an eighth grader.
“To quote the Good Book makes me liable”
The banning of this book is indeed curious:
We have banned the most widely read book as if it’s content had no significance or impact on the world and world events.
And we have done it mainly because of the protestations of a miniscule minority, some of whom don’t even have kids!
Surely this book has moral lessons that are on par with Shakespeare…in fact, might Shakespeare have been greatly influenced by this book? On a list of probabilities this one ranks at the top.
What are we doing?
Tina: “We have banned the most widely read book as if it’s content had no significance or impact on the world and world events.”
Where has this book been “banned?”
I have seen the stories of teachers and administrators telling students they may not read the Bible during free reading time, but most of those ended with the student and their family winning their case. Do you have any examples of a school that has actually “banned” the Bible from its premises?
“Surely this book has moral lessons that are on par with Shakespeare…in fact, might Shakespeare have been greatly influenced by this book?”
Of course he was.
I am not against teaching the Bible as literature in high school, but I can see why districts would choose not to, since religion is a matter of controversy. The school would have to teach it just like any other text, without allowing the religious beliefs of any one teacher to influence the lessons. Sadly I don’t trust all teachers to do this appropriately. Another concern would be that other groups would also want their holy texts taught in the classroom. Again, I’d be fine with this if done properly, but I’m sure many conservative Christian parents would complain if they knew their child had even touched a copy of the Quran (atheists and religious minorities don’t have a monopoly on irrational protests). So I can hardly blame schools for wanting to avoid the controversy altogether by simply avoiding teaching anything having to do with religion.
The problem comes when school officials try to inhibit kids’ freedom of expression and belief by shutting down their ability to practice their faith on their own time. Kids still have a constitutional right to read a religious text or pray aloud during free time, and any teacher or administrator who violates this right should be dealt with properly–mandatory diversity training where teachers learn how to handle religious differences on campus might be helpful.
Listen, you do Bible studies at church, and social studies at school. This has ALWAYS been the rule.
Now, I know, that there are places in this country (our Bible Belt, don’t ya know, and others) where this rule has, up til recently, been flouted with impunity.
No more. And they are pissed.
And tough noogies.
Do you have any examples of a school that has actually “banned” the Bible from its premises?
Christian Post:
CBN News:
Education Wonk:
The atheists in America have been working since I was in grammar school to remove everything religious from our schools.
And Libby the Bible can be studied without its being religious in nature. It is also a book rich in history and philosophy which could surely be incorporated in lessons. (TN to you too)
Sorry guys I have to leave for awhile…later.
“The ban was implemented by the Idaho Public Charter School Commission to keep Nampa Classical Academy charter school from including the Christian text in its curriculum.”
Nampa … flouter … the problem … get it? Grappling with the flouters has been a work in progress for, easily, 50 years … from the end of WWII, really. It’s going slowly and, alas, imperfectly … but it’s going.
And we know you’re pissed.
Libby, I’m more or less a typical conservative and when you say I must be pissed, I don’t know what you’re talking about?
I think just about like you on this issue… if it’s a public school (taxpayer funded) they should teach reading, writing, home economics, math, English, art, shop classes, theater, driver’s ed, computers, music, government and good citizenship, geography, US history, physical education (various sports), science and world history. That’s a big challenge and that’s enough.
I think parents should teach their kids good character and how character really matters! They should teach what real ethics are how we develop our core values. They should help kids develop good work ethics, maybe instruct them in family tradition, patriotism and respect for people and how to be caring and loving kids. And if they can, parents should also teach home ec, drivers ed, various shop skills, music and whatever their personal talents might allow them, just to back up the school’s effort. That’s a big challenge and that’s enough.
The church should reinforce the family unit, give us moral guidance and support, especially in times of crisis. The church should remind us regularly why character counts, give us hope for a better future and help us develop core values. The church has many roles similar to the parents and the schools, but helping people, teaching how to have inner strength and why being upright in all your dealings is important. Religious philosophy is important because it overlaps into many character issues and it works best if it’s underscored by teaching respect for other faiths. That’s a big challenge and that’s enough. If we can keep these things on track for one generation we will have the greatest country in the history of the world surviving into the next century.
Now why is it that I should be pissed Libby? Please enlighten me.
Tina, when I asked “Do you have any examples of a school that has actually “banned” the Bible from its premises?” I mostly meant schools that did not even allow students to bring Bibles to school. Your links didn’t really show any examples of that; the closest is your third one, in which students were asked not to read their Bibles at recess, which I agree is ridiculous. The attorney’s statement that recess doesn’t necessarily count as free time is absurd and tortured. Any updates on the result of this case? Your article was from 2011.
The first article was about a state ban on using the Bible as a part of school curriculum, which I also think is wrong. Schools should generally have the authority to choose their own materials. Using the Bible as a resource is not, in and of itself, a violation of religious freedom, as long as it is taught like any other piece of literature and not to proselytize. While I understand the state’s concern that this would be hard to ensure and enforce, that doesn’t justify robbing students of any potential learning tool.
The second article is about a ban on a group distributing Bibles on school property. This ban I agree with 100%. Religious groups should not be allowed to use school property to proselytize to children as they come to and from school. They can do this right outside of school grounds if they want to, just not on school property. The exception would be during a meeting of a Bible Club and giving them out to any students who choose to show up. Anything else is a violation of the separation of church and state.
One thing is for sure, teachers and administrators need to spend more time educating themselves on the law, and more attention should be paid to the tricky issues of religious diversity in credential programs so that everyone is on the same page as far as where the line is when it comes to handling those issues. There is so much confusion over what can and cannot be done, but the basic principles of religious freedom are very simple and can solve many of these debates if people are willing to be consistent.
School doesn’t even allow Bible to brought to class: “WJBK – Jessica Cross of Dearborn Heights is frustrated with her children’s school after her 8-year-old autistic son was told not to bring his Bible to class anymore, and then her 6-year-old daughter’s worksheet referenced alcohol. Her children attend Highview Elementary.
She says her son, Jason, would take his Bible to school as his book of choice to read during free time. He was eventually told that book is “only for church, not school.”
Read more: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/24535717/mom-says-dearborn-hts-school-banned-her-sons-bible-sent-home-inappropriate-worksheets#ixzz32Jk56jAO
Another school doesn’t allow student to bring Bible to class: “EAST COUNTY — A student who claims he was suspended for talking about Christianity to classmates and banned from bringing his Bible to campus has filed a federal lawsuit against an East County school district. An attorney for Kenneth Dominguez, 16, said the Grossmont Union High School District infringed on his client’s Constitutional rights.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/Mar/31/student-suspended-bible-seized-was-christian-disru/
Chris: “Your links didn’t really show any examples of that”
It’s often an unofficial ban…call it the agreed upon method for avoiding controversy (and lawsuits). This is how atheist (Marxists) stifle speech and education regarding religious history and thought, through constant objection, protest and attack. They believe the amendment is there to protect them from religion when in fact it is there to protect religious liberty.
I used to share the exact stance expressed by Jack. I have been changing my opinion as I notice the overt drive to marginalize, condemn and ridicule religious people growing. A school system that is afraid to teach about the history of the world religions and the impact that those teachings have had on our society is a system that is being manipulated and oppressed…fear and the need to control is not a good basis for education.
“Any updates on the result of this case? Your article was from 2011.”
I don’t follow these cases. You could search it as well as I could. It isn’t something that would make big news unless its an extremely slow news day.
“Schools should generally have the authority to choose their own materials.
I agree…but I believe the parents in the district should have the last word. It is their children and teachers are working for them, as taxpayers, in reality.
” Using the Bible as a resource is not, in and of itself, a violation of religious freedom, as long as it is taught like any other piece of literature and not to proselytize. While I understand the state’s concern that this would be hard to ensure and enforce, that doesn’t justify robbing students of any potential learning tool.”
More agreement. How much richer would a lesson about Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel painting be with some background about his inspiration and his struggle with Pope Julius II.
” While I understand the state’s concern that this would be hard to ensure and enforce…”
Is it any easier to bend to the will of the few who scream at the very mention of God or the Bible in school?
I have to admit I am not an expert by any means regarding how these decisions are made. I would hope that the ethics of avoiding proselytizing of any religion, including atheism, would be part of the training that our teachers receive. And I would hope that the same guidelines, including consequences for breaches in protocol, would be applied as it is for any other ethical standard.
” Anything else is a violation of the separation of church and state.”
What separation? I don’t see that word in the amendment. Hard core Marxists ans atheist don’t want to acknowledge the part that asserts “the free exercise”. In fact they have been willing to substitute an opinion, written in a letter, for the actual words in the Constitution, First Amendment.
Every school district is made up of people who share different values. In most a consensus can be reached based on majority opinion and I believe the majority should have the last word giving due consideration as they can to those who object (Not forcing a child to pledge allegiance is an example).
“There is so much confusion over what can and cannot be done”
It is now. It hasn’t always been so.
I think most people of faith are willing to be very tolerant. The fact that it has taken fifty years or more for Religious people to begin to push back is a testament to their tolerance. The line has been crossed in my opinion when a majority group is being marginalized by the few and is allowed to get away with frivolous lawsuits that threaten the fragile budgets of school districts. When they started pushing Christmas carols and holiday symbols out the door of the school house the standard line was exactly as Libby expressed above…and the people relented because they understood how it might be offensive to Jewish children (the only minority of note at the time). But now it has become a war for survival of basic values and atheist beliefs are taught as gospel. We are not teaching proper respect for the world religions when we are ridiculing religion which s what we are doing when we bend to the will of the few and stifle our own speech for convenience and ease.
“the basic principles of religious freedom are very simple and can solve many of these debates if people are willing to be consistent.”
There’s the rub.
Jack, I just don’t know what to say that hasn’t already been said. Both of your examples are examples of parents, through their children, trying to prosletize at public school. This is against the rule.
Can you really not see this?
Libby, I was just responding to Chris who said he could not find any examples of Bible’s being banned at school and I supplied a few I found. I was not debating the issue why they were banned that was another subject.
“Talking about Christianity to classmates” is not necessarily equivalent to “parents, through their children, trying to proselytize at public school,” Libby. It certainly *could* be that this is what was going on, but the description is too vague to really draw a conclusion. Students should of course be free to discuss their religious beliefs with one another during free time; to prohibit this as a general practice would be a huge first amendment violation. When they stop being discussions and start being harassment or bullying, that’s when the school needs to step in.
If teaching about the worlds religions is considered “dictating” by the government then its time to take government out of the education business and just about anything else it does.
We didn’t “give” China our jobs. Some technology was stolen and some given to them (Clinton for instance) But they have the real world advantage of cheap labor. We have a choice. Create policy that allows business to compete or face job losses. Those in power have made competing even more difficult for American businesses than before…stupid.
You are right about science and math but it won’t help a lot if American businesses continue to be oppressed with higher tax rates and regulatory costs.
As for class size. When I was in K-12 there were between 25 and 32 pupils per class with a single teacher in each class.
According to “http://www.edweek.org/ew/issues/class-size/”>edweek.org the situation has improved:
Studies support the smaller class size theory. All I know is that when I went to school America’s students placed at the top.