Shocking Discovery – Black Violence

by Jack Lee

  • One in every fifteen African American men are incarcerated in comparison to one in every onehundred and six white men.
  • According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, one in three black men can expect to go to prison in their lifetime.  Blacks have a disproportionate number of encounters with law enforcement.   A report by the Department of Justice found African Americans almost four times as likely to experience the use of force during encounters with the police.
  • Blacks make up two-fifths of confined youth today.
  • According to recent data by the Department of Education, African American students are arrested far more often than their white classmates. The data showed that 96,000 students were arrested and 242,000 referred to law enforcement by schools during the 2009-10 school year.
  • African Americans now constitute nearly 1 million of the total 2.3 million incarcerated population
  • African Americans are incarcerated at nearly six times the rate of whites
  • Nationwide, African-Americans represent 26% of juvenile arrests, 44% of youth who are detained, 46% of the youth who are judicially waived to criminal court, and 58% of the youth admitted to state prisons (Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice).
  • In over 52% of the murders in  the US in 2011 in which the race of the murderer was known, the murderer was  black. Over half of the victims of murder were also black. But blacks are only 13.6% of the population.
  • The murder rate in the US for non-blacks was 2.6 per 100,000 in 2011.

One question that many of us fear to ask, much less answer, is… why are Blacks so greatly overrepresented in prison and prone to violent behavior?

It’s an inescapable fact that are, but it’s a touchy subject to discuss, especially if you are White.   We frequently hear from credentialed authorities that it’s basically the fault of prejudiced Whites and their biased criminal justice system.  Although as progress is made in racism and criminology/penology this theory holds less and less merit.

White racists and slave owners treated blacks horrible in early America and there is no escaping that ugly period of our nations history or the consequences of that inhumanity.

Yes, Blacks were brought here against their will as slaves and that was evil and wrong.  Yes, they were brutalized and their family units were destroyed for many decades.  And yes, the prejudice against Blacks kept them in poverty and ugly racists attitudes was quite evident among many Whites in the previous century.

It’s reasonable to say, that Blacks (and all minorities) are now treated with much more understanding and equality than ever before.  Activist of all races, including Whites, are to be applauded for their nobel work to eliminate many of the old racist stereotypes and racist laws as they strive for equality among all.   But, is this unfortunate history the key reason Blacks are overrepresented in prison today?  I once thought that, but now I’m not so sure because I’ve found some startling information that take me in a totally different direction.

This one discovery could account for Black on Black violence and general criminal behavior, far more than poverty, unemployment, poor education, drugs, or broken homes.  These things may ONLY be symptoms and not the cause!   But, before I tell you what it is, let’s take a look how Blacks are doing in countries other than the USA and see what a change location has had on their collective outcome?

Every country in Europe that publishes their prison demographics, that had more than a few percent of Blacks among their population, seemed to share the same overrepresentation of Blacks in their prisons.   But, how could that be?  Most of these nations never participated in Black slavery, and a few of these countries were very progressive.   They were places that took a great deal of pride in being tolerant and color blind.   They think of themselves as the most enlightened, on everything societal, from gay marriage to mixed marriages.   So, we can’t blame racism if they too have high incarceration rates for Blacks.

England, for example, tends to take the attitude that they do things better than their American  cousins, yet when it came to Black crime statistics, their figures were remarkably similar to ours.  Black prisoners make up a whopping 15% of the UK prisoner population, yet Blacks only comprise 2.2% of the general population!  Again, how could this be?

“People will be and should be shocked by this data,” said Juliet Lyon, director of the Prison Reform Trust. “We have a tendency to say we are better than the US, but we have not got prison right.”   Lyon said that although there had been “numerous efforts to address racism in the prison system … we have yet to get a better relationship between justice authorities and black communities. Instead we have ended up with mistrust breeding mistrust.”  Sound familiar?

Blacks are 7 times more likely to be in a UK prison than anyone else, including any other minorities.   And in France it was worse.   It’s estimated that a majority of inmates classified as Muslim are of African ancestry.  So we are forced to resort to guestimating.   “About 60 to 70 percent of all inmates in the country’s prison system are Muslim, according to Muslim leaders, sociologists and researchers, though Muslims make up only about 12 percent of the country’s population.  The Muslims referred to here are most commonly from North Africa.  As a matter of policy, the French government does not collect data on race, religion or ethnicity on its citizens in any capacity, making it difficult to obtain precise figures on the makeup of prison populations. But demographers, sociologists and Muslim leaders have compiled generally accepted estimates showing Muslim inmate populations nationwide averaging between 60 and 70 percent.”

Despite the dramatic cultural differences and varying approaches to the criminal justice system, Blacks kept coming up as overrepresented in prison.

Was there some common denominator among the world’s Black population that could be attributed to this anomaly in demographics?  Was there some sort of genetic or biological chemistry in play here, something that was pervasively affecting personality, physical attributes, aggression and even intelligence?   The first clue came by way of an unlikely source, a deadly disease, prostrate cancer.

Researches found Blacks had an unusually high rate of prostate cancer and this hinted at a physical causal event that made them more prone to this type of cancer…testosterone.

Cancer researchers have long concluded that high testosterone levels is a contributory factor to prostrate cancer.  And we know testosterone does have an impact of muscle building, personality and aggression.  This is such a commonly accepted notion that emn are often the butt of jokes where the punch line is “he has too much testosterone.”   Could high levels of testosterone account for the aggressive behaviors not found in other races?   Is that all it could be…high testosterone?

Research in the USA has made a definitive discovery that has been completely kept from view because it’s not politically correct to mention it, even though it is a provable medical fact.  Black males between the ages of 7 to 35 have exceptionally high levels of testosterone than do Whites or other races.

This might account for a number of personality and behavioral factors.  Might, is the key word, and I say that with due caution because this unique chemical factor has yet to be determined as a casual factor of anything except prostrate cancer.   It lacks scientific exploration…possibly because this is not an area of science we wish to explore due to ones politics?   However, it could prove Black violence is an inherited behavior, a physiological difference, and all the legislation in the world won’t change that.

We’re heavily invested in a belief that says poverty, bigotry and other societal ills are the root cause of Black violence.  And we hold that once we get beyond our racist attitudes, we will all be equal.   The reality is we may not be equal and that is a disturbing thought,  because we’re so invested in thinking in terms of oppressive and lack of opportunity.   What if the root cause of Black violence was just a simple matter of higher testosterone levels between the ages of 7 and 35 and what if there was a fairly simple medical remedy?  Shall we deny looking into this possibility because it doesn’t fit with our biases?

I copied this from an article from an untested source, but it seemed to mirror similar findings elsewhere, so I decided to use it, “Higher testosterone levels are linked to violent behavior. High testosterone results in lower IQ in males but better fighting and mating skills. Interestingly, the black male IQ is 83 and black female IQ is 87.

By the same token, Black females earn 99% of what White females earn when they are employed, implying either than White racism is minor in the US against Black females, or whatever racism exists is being effectively countered by diversity goals, affirmative action, etc.

Testosterone is an interesting hormone. A little extra testosterone makes a man – good visuospatial skills, etc. Lots of extra testosterone is too much of a good thing – it lowers IQ.

In the UK, young Black females have higher IQ’s than young Black males. However, Black females also have higher testosterone than White females.  Black boys’ exposure to high testosterone begins in the womb. Black mothers’ wombs have higher testosterone, and this feeds to the fetus.”  End

Keep in mind, it’s not all about Blacks when it comes to this theory about testosterone induced behavior.   Whites after 35 start to see rising testosterone levels, and while they can be more aggressive in their older years, this is likely tempered by a sort of conditioned response or deeply rooted behaviors learned in their early years and thus it doesn’t have the same deleterious effect that it would if they had been similarly exposed at a very young age.   Conversely, Black males after age 35 see significant declines in testosterone and this tends to mirror the demographic decline in aggressive behavior.

I don’t pretend to say this is the definitive answer to explaining high rates of violence among Blacks or that we should discount the effects of under employment, poverty, broken homes, etc.,  It all surely plays a role in emotional development and decision making.   However, this one provable physiological difference is an area that is worth exploring, especially since so little research has been done.

Why do Blacks have higher testosterone levels?  It likely because of evolution needs.  Look at Africa, a nation of hunters and warriors, where physical attributes were often necessary to survive.  Those people with higher levels of testosteron were more likely to survive…it’s how natural selection and evolution work.

In closing, it seems foolish that on one hand we are often quick to point to environmental factors as greatly effecting our physical and mental well-being and on the other hand we dare not consider that environmental factors may also evolved a chemical difference in particular race.  Science must be free from politics in order to find the answers.

Disclaimer:  In doing this story I may have inadvertently used a website/author that is not racially impartial and/or that could have some racist undertones.  If that has occurred, I offer my apologies right up front.  Please know, I was simply trying to gather statistical information without getting into the rhetoric or stereotyping thyat may accompany such information.   I think it’s healthy to discuss controversial issues and have a fair and open dialog.

This was a tough subject to research and I’ve tried to bring forth only factual information.   If you have data that strongly contradicts the above, please send it in and if it can be corroborated we will post it.


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30 Responses to Shocking Discovery – Black Violence

  1. Harold Ey says:

    Whew Jack!, that took a lot of …errr, lets just say “testosterone” to post a article like that. One thing I enjoy about Post Scripts is the variety of subjects posted, either topical and just plain informative, and many times both. Interesting article about actual and perceived behavioral traits and social perception of them. As you stated , you are not saying the articles you found are 100% accurate but they do tend to open ones eyes to the possibles. Excellent theoretical physics.
    Also this link to visuospatial skills, helps put things into perspective as well.

  2. Libby says:

    The last three mass murder sprees were perpetrated by white guys, were they not?

    So what gives, here? (As if I have to ask.)

    • Post Scripts says:

      Libby, yes the last three mass killings were White, so what? Surely, you don’t want to use only chronology as a litmus test? Or are you saying that crazy White killers exist in greater numbers than Black murderers? What is your point Libby, please explain, because your comment makes no sense?

      How about you use these stats and lets see if you can reach a conclusion that is not related to your political bias? Here we go… there were a total of 165,068 murders in America in the last 10 year period (see link below). Of those murders, where the killer was known, 68,531 were Black. Only 51,735 were committed by Whites, even though 72% of the US population is White and ONLY 13% are Black. A Black person is 7.5 times more likely to be a killer than the White counterpart. Aside from murder, 27% of all rapes were committed by Black males and 57% were committed by Whites, again disproportionate base demographics. Can’t wait to see how you spin this Libby.

  3. Pie Guevara says:

    Clearly Jack is a racist for publishing such facts. (Oh just kidding.)

    Nevertheless, I believe that to blame a hormone is a trite misstep. I doubt that a statistical analysis of criminal behavior amongst the Massai is anywhere nearly comparable to the criminal behavior of blacks in the US.

    This is all about social forces and culture (or their failure), not physiology.

    • Post Scripts says:

      Pie, I do think that social forces have a significant role to play too, no question. However, this new facet (chemistry) should not be discounted too quickly, because I think it too may play a role and explain a lot of aggressive behaviors and learning ability. Bottom line, no single factor will ever explain why people do what they do, it is always a combination of things. However, it’s helpful to know to what degree each of those things plays so we can focus our resources in the best ways possible to reduce criminal behaviors and improve our living conditions.

      By the way…homicide rates per capita are highest among African nations by a great margin. Next in line is South America.

  4. Chris says:

    I actually agree with Pie, Jack. The issue likely has more to do with culture and economics than biology.

    Libby, it’s interesting that mass murderers tend to be white while the overall murder rate is higher in the black community. I don’t really know what to make of this, but like Pie says, culture has a lot to do with it. I wish I could offer a deeper analysis right now.

  5. Libby says:

    Libby, yes the last three mass killings were White, so what?

    So … that’s what’s spawned the current waive of anti-gun feeling: three crazy white guys with detrimental access to firearms.

    But you seem to be trying to re-shape the discussion, create a little alternate reality for yerself, bearing no relation to the current debate, but casting an appalling light on you’re own … as I said, obsession with the “other”.

    “Retro” is very chic these days, but not this. This retrograde “social theory” is just … gross.

  6. Libby says:

    Can’t wait to see how you spin this Libby.

    Jack, I can’t believe I have to write this. I know that you know it … or knew it?

    It is poverty (among other things) that spawns violence in a community. You know this, don’t you? And, to say that an impoverished population is prone to violence due to its race … is racist. You know this too.

    So why are you doing it? It is just too creepy.

  7. Tina says:

    Libby one way to respond to a mass killings is to call for stricter gun control. People who do this have convinced themselves that it is THE solution even though history and statistics say otherwise. Some have looked at cities where stricter gun laws are in place and ask the obvious, if gun control is the answer, why is so much murder going on in Chicago where the laws are already stricter…and, by the way, why is it that people who are so concerned about gun control are not particularly concerned about the blacks kids being killed in Chicago? Why isn’t the media talking about it? Why do they only sensationalize murders committed by white teens?

    The answer is that its a political argument and the school shootings are being used to push an agenda to remove weapons from citizens and bring to an end the right to own them. The Chicago killings are not useful. The media and progressive politicians don’t give a fig about black kids being murdered in the streets of Chicago. In fact it may be an inconvenient truth they’d rather ignore.

    This blog is a discussion forum for current events, politics, and social issues. This post falls perfectly within that context. Jack is merely pursuing something that is appropriate to discussions about current events in America and I would think as a former police officer, of particular interest to him.

    I don’t have a problem with your thinking that it’s “creepy”. But your question (accusation?) is offensive and possibly presumptive.

  8. Tina says:

    Okay men here is a question that I think is germane to the subject.

    Is it true that the best way to harness and direct a young man with raging hormones is to involve him in physical activities and sports? Isn’t it also important that he have strong male role models to direct, guide, and when appropriate rein him in?

    It seems since the sixties we have demanded that boys tone it down. We have discouraged their natural tendencies…no army men or play guns…no rough play…no more dodge ball! I don’t think this has been healthy and especially for boys, or girls, with higher testosterone levels.

  9. Harold Ey says:

    Interesting article about the possible reasons other than racism on why one particular race of men have a disproportionate ratio of people in prison for violent crimes. Then suddenly we get all entwined with guns being the weapon of choice of mass(White)murders. seems anything that is posted gets turned around and lead off in a different direction, and generally by our more avowed Liberal, with diverting crap-shoot comments. Why? The article was about research that is trying to establish racism is not the basic cause of a black mans incarceration, nothing,nada, zip was said about the use of guns, Get it Libby! Research is looking at a human hormone which may be the problem, not Guns!. The research sounded like a direction to investigate to possibly help reduce the numbers of blacks in prison by first understanding why they became violent in the first place, and hopefully have a answer that may potentially prevent their incarceration due to violent to begin with. It was never about Guns, But Libby just pops off with a SWAG declaration that is completely off point to the post. Why Why Why

  10. Libby says:

    “Libby one way to respond to a mass killings is to call for stricter gun control.”

    Well, I do like to jerk your chain, but I’m on record way back … heaven forfend I should be throwing my lot in with the Montanans or Coloradans or whomever … but it’s not access to firearms that’s the problem, but the dearth of access to mental health care.

    That poor woman in New Jersey knew she needed to get the boy locked up, in treatment, whatever … but she left it til he was legally grown, and she was up shit creek, legally speaking.

  11. Peggy says:

    Libby: “That poor woman in New Jersey knew she needed to get the boy locked up, in treatment, whatever … but she left it til he was legally grown, and she was up shit creek, legally speaking.”

    Hey Libs we actually agree on something if you meant Connecticut instead of New Jersey. Adam Lanza’s mother needed help with how to deal with her son‘s mental disability, but sadly none was apparently available to guide her.

    I too have had experience with a young boy with aspergers autism who was very violent. At 10 years old he was attacking his mother giving her black eyes, cracked ribs and split lips. He stuck a pencil in the neck of a classmate who bent down by his school desk just missing his spinal cord, and after destroying the school library kicked, bit and used his nails to scratch the arms of the principal so bad he required medical care. I knew him because he was my husband’s grandson and my son was his principal.

    I’ve heard not everyone with aspergers is violent, but for those who are immediate resources need to be made available. None, or I should say very little help was available for the above young boy. His parents tried everything they could to get him help. I even went with them to have an evaluation done by a doctor at the adult behavior health facility off of Cohasset here in Chico. Since there was no services provided for children north of Sacramento we had to stay with him at the adult only facility for his protection.

    The only long term assistance he and his parents received was a school counselor being assigned as a part of his IEP. Sadly I do expect to see his name in the news one day and pray daily the students at the Chico high school where he’s a student are safe from harm.

    All of these mass killings have been done by guys with some kind of diagnosed mental disorder. When will the discussion of changing the laws to deal with the mental health problem we have rise to the level of gun control? In my opinion that is where the laws need to be changed to prevent further mass killings.

  12. Pie Guevara says:

    Re Chris: “I actually agree with Pie, Jack. The issue likely has more to do with culture and economics than biology.”

    In the future, please be so kind as to refrain from agreeing with me on anything. It makes me look bad.

  13. Pie Guevara says:

    5.4% of all white persons in the US (including “white Hispanics” are classified as being in poverty.

    9.7% of all black persons (including “black Hispanics”) are classified as being in poverty.

    Clearly, economics does not play a significant role that can explain away black crime. Culture does.

    • Post Scripts says:

      Pie: Culture… yes, absolutely!!! A conditioned response. You’ve hit on a significant factor. But, could a culture be shaped by a pathology?

  14. Pie Guevara says:

    Re Jack: “By the way…homicide rates per capita are highest among African nations by a great margin. Next in line is South America.

    Homicide rates in Africa compared to other nations is not a valid supporting argument that hormones play a significant role in criminal behavior, much less the Masai.

    You might as well claim that testosterone levels determine what male becomes a rapist or not. I have an abundance of testosterone and have never raped nor murdered, nor committed any other crime, except, maybe, TPing a teacher’s house when I was a stupid kid full of testosterone.

    • Post Scripts says:

      Pie, Ithink we can both agree that testosterone is not a definitive answer, however it’s a component of human physiology that is worth being explored, isn’t it?

      The psychiatric community is interested and there have been some studies. The current statistical data on crime suggests there may be a correlation between aggression and people with high testosterone, just as researchers once suspected those with an extra Y chromosome would have faster growth. There is some evidence to suspect testosterone does play a factor in certain character traits, but again we are early in this area of research. However, it would be imprudent to conclude just because the evidence is insufficient or not conclusive, that this chemical has no role in aggression or sexual behavior. I have to say, this theory has my attention and I would love to learn more about it. There is potential here to benefit people and that concerns me most of all. Is nature or nuture, a pathology or invironment, or a combination thereof… I would love to know the answers.

  15. Chris says:

    That’s awful, Peggy. My brother has Asperger’s (although the designation was just recently changed, and it’s no longer officially called that) and luckily he was never violent. Most are not; autism is not a mental illness, it is more like an atypical way of thinking.

    I agree that we need to do more to help those with mental illnesses and other neurological issues.

    However, we can also do more to ensure that dangerous people have more of a barrier to obtaining weapons in the first place. The gun show loophole, according to the ATF, is the second leading source of illegally trafficked guns in this country. It’s how the Columbine shooters obtained their weapons. It is crazy that we haven’t closed this yet. 90% of Americans support universal background checks, including a majority of gun owners and NRA members. Even Wayne LaPierre used to support this. And yet it has little chance of passing in Congress because the Republicans are so far to the right that they aren’t listening to the majority of their constituents. That is nuts. When 9 out of 10 Americans favor something, it shouldn’t be that hard to get it passed. But unfortunately our Congress answers more to special interests like the gun lobby then it does to average Americans.

    • Post Scripts says:

      Chris there is no gun show loop hole in CA. Results show it has done nothing to reduce gun crime. The gun show loop that exists in other states can’t be traced to any widespread degree of criminal activity.. so I’m not sure what the great urgency is, when it’s of questionable benefit? But, if it feels good to do it must be worthwhile, right? Then again, there are so many other things, reasonable things, we could focus on that would have an impact one crime and violence… democracy can be messy and frustrating. I think Libby said that once! OMG…I’m quoting Libby now??? lol

      I do agree with you that severely mentally ill people should get the fast track into the justice system so we can prevent them from getting dangerous things, like a drivers license, owning a car or a gun and in extreme cases they should be confined to a care facility for their own safety and ours. The system has really let us down too many times, the mentally ill need better supervision and assistance.

  16. Tina says:

    Chris: “90% of Americans support universal background checks…And yet it has little chance of passing in Congress because the Republicans are so far to the right that they aren’t listening to the majority of their constituents.”

    That is not exactly true. Some Democrats are against it and quite a few republicans have supported it in states and at the federal level:

    Ne Mexico Telegram:

    A bill that would close the loophole that allows some purchases at gun shows to go through without background checks passed the House after nearly two and a half hours of debate. The bill also allowed the state to pass information related to mental illness to the federal government to prevent those with mental illness from owning guns.

    The bill passed with bipartisan support on a 43-26 vote. Rep. Larry Larrañaga, R-Albuquerque, did not vote despite being in his chair at the time of the vote. …

    …Eight Republicans voted for the bill while three Democrats voted against it.

    Also in 2009 with Obama as President bills were proposed in both houses that never made it to the floor. The super majority Democrat congress chose not to address the gun control loop hole even though they didn’t need a single Republican vote to pass it.

    The record for Democrats on this issue, unless there’s a crisis to be exploited for votes, is less than stellar.

    A Democrat sponsored House bill, HR141 is currently under consideration in committee.

    Most Republicans have expressed negativity because they didn’t believe stronger gun laws would address the underlying problems behind school shootings. Translating that to general resistance to closing the loop hole at gun shows is also nuts.

    Republicans are not “far to the right”. In terms of American ideals it is the Democrat Party that has moved…to the extreme left!

    In 1995 Eric Holder told a group of Democrat women that he thought we needed to “brainwash” Americans about guns so that they would be ashamed to own them like smokers are today who cower outside of buildings when they smoke after the cigarette shaming campaign.

    Holder is talking about a fundamental right guaranteed under the Constitution. While the gang culture might require severe methods to change the culture I don’t think a policy to brainwash…BRAINWASH!…average Americans to willingly giving up their guns is smart, main stream, or politically in the center.

    The President has a sketchy record on gun control as well. Although he has said in public he believes in the Second Amendment there are accounts that suggest he has held other positions:

    In his new book At the Brink, well known author and economist John R. Lott Jr. recounts a conversation with Obama at the University of Chicago Law School. Mr. Obama, who was a lecturer at the time, told Lott “I don’t believe people should be able to own guns.”

    Also Lott writes:

    Despite his assurance to Fox News that he understands the Second Amendment, it’s a good bet that the positions Obama took on guns during his time at Chicago reveal his true convictions.

    Lott’s latest revelation brings to mind the President’s early days as a director of the Joyce Foundation.

    According to National Review, during Obama’s tenure there from 1994-2002, Joyce donated $15 million to the Violence Policy Center, an organization which called itself “the most aggressive group in the gun control movement.”

    By 2001 Joyce also gave over a million dollars to the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research. One of the Center’s main arguments centered on guns in the home, contending they were “more dangerous than protective.”

    Lott points out in chapter three of Brink that Obama supported a ban on handguns in 1996, then in 1998 a ban on the sale of semi-automatic guns; and in 2004 he pushed for banning gun sales within five miles of a school or park.

    Democrats of all stripes that are in a big hurry to further restrict gun ownership to law abiding gun owners yawned over every new revelation about the Fast and Furious scandal:

    As part of Operation Fast and Furious, ATF allowed 1,961 guns to “walk” out of the U.S. in an effort to identify the high profile cartel leaders who received them. The agency eventually lost track of the weapons, and they often ended up in the hands of Mexican hit men , including those who ordered and carried out the attack on Salvarcar and El Aliviane, a rehabilitation center in Ciudad Juarez where 18 young men were killed on September 2, 2009.

    In Mexico, the timing of the operation coincided with an upsurge of violence in the war among the country’s strongest cartels. In 2009, the northern Mexican states served as a battlefield for the Sinaloa and Juarez drug trafficking organizations, and as expansion territory for the increasingly powerful Zetas. According to documents obtained by Univision News, from October of that year to the end of 2010, nearly 175 weapons from Operation Fast and Furious inadvertently armed the various warring factions across northern Mexico.

    “Many weapons cross the border and enter Mexico, but that [Fast and Furious] number, quantity and type of weapons had quite an impact in the war in this area” Jose Wall, an ATF agent stationed in Tijuana from 2009 to 2011, told Univision News. …

    … The Univision News investigation also found ATF offices from states besides Arizona pursued similar misguided strategies. In Florida, the weapons from Operation Castaway ended up in the hands of criminals inColombia, Honduras and Venezuela (link audio crumpler), the lead informant in the case told Univision News in a prison interview.

    “When the ATF stopped me, they told me the guns were going to cartels,” Hugh Crumpler, a Vietnam veteran turned arms trafficker, told Univision News. “The ATF knew before I knew and had been following me for a considerable length of time. They could not have followed me for two months like they said they did, and not know the guns were going somewhere, and not want for that to be happening.”

    Other firearms under ATF surveillance were permitted to leave the country from Texas, according to court documents and the exclusive testimony of Magdalena Avila Villalobos, the sister of an ICE agent who survived a confrontation with cartel hit men on a rural highway in Mexico on February 15, 2011. His fellow agent, Jaime Zapata, was killed during the attacks.

    “It’s not from Arizona and Fast and Furious,” Avila Villalobos told Univision News, speaking in her brother’s stead for the first time, “but it’s a very similar operation…” She later added, “Those weapons that have been recovered, it’s been confirmed that they were weapons used in the shootout that killed Jaime Zapata and wounded Victor Avila.”

    It’s hard to take the efforts of Democrats seriously when they show almost zero interest in the violence that plagues Chicago or in getting to the bottom of the Fast and Furious scandal. Investigations and hearings can be successful but only when pressure is brought to bear. The Democrats resisted the efforts of House Republicans and their public supporters backed them up with silence.

  17. Harold Ey says:

    I find it normal and not at all beneficial for one political group to chastise the other if they don’t get their way on a issue. Chris’ point, (about 90% which I disagree) that those number do exist on the new bills proposals of recent. But, the core of his statement is correct. When will the administration and Congress get it?! If a majority of Americans don’t want something, for example, the 78% that do not want Obamacare, why force it upon us?

    • Post Scripts says:

      Harold why indeed??? A good question!

      Perhaps…because they (liberals) think they always know what’s best for society and in part thats because we’re seen as too stupid to make our own important decisions? Because they’re controlling, arrogant and condescending and it’s part of their mental illness? Or….because they’re naive, indifferent to logic, especially when they’re heavily invested in a contrary idea?

      I’m just thinking out loud…you know, throwing a few things out here that come to mind. You may have more thoughts on why?

  18. Harold Ey says:

    You mean like our Liberal City Council, like last week when they called a special City Council meeting in Chico (bet that cost a few K tax dollars) because the City council wanted/needed input from the public. And all the Mayor did was YADDA YADDA YADDA about what they couldn’t do and had no solutions and then, LIMIT the public speakers to 60 seconds, BECAUSE THEY(mostly the Mayor)RAN THE MEETING SO LATE talking about nothing!. Almost seemed to me the Mayor thought she could do some Campaigning. Well She got part of it right, She was a PAIN! and as usual with this group, NOTHING gets accomplished, again! DO you mean that problem as well?

  19. Chris says:

    Jack: “Chris there is no gun show loop hole in CA.”

    True. California closed the loophole years ago, yet it remains one of the states with the most gun shows. So…what exactly is the downside of closing the loophole?

    “Results show it has done nothing to reduce gun crime.”

    The impact of California’s gun laws may seem small, since the denial rate is only 1%. But that is higher than the national average, which is 0.6%, so it does seem to have some effect.

    This article has more statistics indicating that California’s gun laws work:

    –In 2011, California’s rates of killings, robberies and assaults involving firearms were all higher than the national rates. But California had lower rates of armed robberies and armed assaults that year than Arizona or Nevada, which conduct less stringent background checks for gun store sales and no checks at all for gun show or private, person-to-person sales.

    –The Golden State definitely has a lower rate of gun deaths — including accidents, suicides and homicides — compared with the nation and many other states, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. California had 8.9 such deaths per 100,000 people from 1999 to 2010, ranking 33rd among states and the District of Columbia and falling under the 10.2 national rate. Nevada’s gun death rate ranked sixth, at 15.9; Arizona’s ranked seventh, at 15.3.

    “The gun show loop that exists in other states can’t be traced to any widespread degree of criminal activity.”

    That’s not true:

    “A federal study found that 10% of guns used in crime by juveniles were sold either at a gun show or a flea market, and in 1999, gun shows were associated with approximately 26,000 firearms used in crime…

    … Since 1994, the Brady Act has prevented more than 1.3 million criminals and other prohibited purchasers from buying guns.”

  20. Libby says:

    “This blog is a discussion forum for current events, politics, and social issues.”

    This does not mean you get to dredge up thoroughly discredited and wildly racist social theories … unchallenged.

  21. Coyeen35 says:

    I went to the Ft Pierce Gun Show to look around. Not as many vendors as usual and the crowd was light. You could actually walk up and down the rows of tables.

  22. Ricky says:

    This is definitely a solid theory. And since its backed by facts and not heresay, no one in their right mind can morally call this article “racist”.

    The truth hurts, and the statistics don’t lie.

  23. Wobby says:

    Hi Libby,

    Why is violence much higher statistically when looking at blacks who live in poverty, compared to whites and asians, as well as hispanics? So it isn’t poverty alone. Tell me what else, because it isn’t just poverty.

  24. Jeff says:

    Prostate cancer not prostrate

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