Posted by Tina
Are you ready to have your notions about the history of Islamic jihad challenged?
Most Westerners would experience the revelations made in Mr. Ibrahim’s article in the American Thinker as shocking. The education they have received in American schools has been…let’s just call it light on facts:
In short, for roughly one millennium — punctuated by a Crusader-rebuttal that the modern West is obsessed with demonizing — Islam daily posed an existential threat to Christian Europe and by extension Western civilization.
Wouldn’t it be a good thing if complete historical events actually ended up in our children’s and college students’ world history books?
Yes, Tina. For most of human history, war-making has been the chief occupation of the fellas. But if you’re trying to make out the Muslims were any worse that any of the other fellas, that would just be your prejudices in operation again.
However, recently, very recently, we seem to be able to arrange longish spates of relative peace … in spite of the fervent inclination in some of us to continue on as in ages past.
Very historical of you, very conservative.
What is it with you?
Is it too difficult to grasp the notion that the commitment to create a caliphate has survived since the founding and that it could be significant in terms of whether we can expect these types to join us in the current century any time soon?
Is it too difficult to consider the notion that the vilified (in the West) Crusades were actually a survival response to hostile tyrannical invaders?
And do you disagree that a more complete understanding of history than the one sided version we’ve been taught would be a good thing?
Are you such a shallow person yourself that you can’t imagine an interest in history unless it provides (supposed) evidence of brown skin racism?
As for the boys…Hillary did a grand job overseeing events in Benghazi…the girls, turns out, like to act tough and play big shot but, at least in this case, couldn’t even be counted on to adequately protect a vulnerable diplomat.
You sure enjoy that B roll, yes?
Evidently posting about Islam’s long history of violence and brutality is outside of Libby’s comfort zone. I don’t think anything will pop that bubble of alternate reality.
Tina, I absolutely agree with you and with the author. Libby on the other hand is the quintessential liberal. She sees a moral equivalency in almost everything. I think this stems from the liberal’s inability to distinguish right from wrong thanks to situational ethics, among other things.
Wow, I’ve never heard the idea that Muslims are a violent people before. What a new and refreshing perspective that in no way matches popular media representation of Muslims. Thank you for opening my eyes to this brand new idea that most people have never been exposed to.
Re #5 Chris:
WOW! Instead of an upbraiding and hand-wringing defense of Islam followed by a diatribe packed with personal attack, left-wing stereotypes, psychobabble, multiple fallacies, name calling, and scorn heaped upon “bigoted”, “racist” conservatives and Post Scripts “Islamophobes”, this time Chris actually admits his eyes have finally been opened the truths and problems surrounding Islam by none other than the “popular” media! (He might try other confirming sources, like global media and the emerging Islamic media — especially the hard journalism on how different factions of Islam treat each other — and a few history texts.)
Well, apparently. Frankly, I am not buying into that pathetic little sneer literally dripping with sub-standard, third-rate sarcasm.
But you know, when Post Scripts shares information and articles that make Chris even mildly uncomfortable and offend his acutely sensitive left-wing sensibilities he just has to drop in and take a crap on it. (Does his behavior remind you of anyone else? Thank you Chris!) Nevertheless, his above post may be a sign of a little progress. A little of the truth about the centuries of problems surrounding Islam which continue into the modern era may have actually finally stuck in his skull. (And as a result of the “popular” media no less! Whatever the hell that is. As opposed to “alternative” left-wing propaganda media I suppose.)
At least this time Chris did not descend completely into the usual Chris we all know so well and love.
I’ll bet he didn’t even read the article and have no doubt Chris will soon again descend into the usual Chris we so love and admire. (Especially if I decide to continue to treat him like he treats others. It really pushes his button when I throw his abusive crap right back in his face.)
On a related note who said the following —
“The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism.
“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”
#7 Pie, It appears others besides Obama read Rules for Radicals. The end justifies the means.
Answer: PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977 interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw.
From Wikipdia: He was a Palestinian leader of the pro-Syria as-Sa’iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) between 1971 and 1979.
Good one Pie. Nice when even a PLO leader admits Palestine is a bogus state.
Oh golly Pie it could be any number of people. Arafat? He was a Jordanian. Oh crumb, I can’t stand it, I shall cheat…back in a minute.
Hmmmm…well, I won’t ruin the fun in case others want to weigh in with a guess.
Re: #8 Peggy:
I am a well read Alinsky-ite. In fact I AM AN ALINSKY-ITE. Just like James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal who once wrote me that he was when I queried him. (Yes folks, BT — Before Twitter — I had once had James Taranto’s ear. I even made a few modest volunteer contributions that were published in his column.) No doubt I am not so adept at Alinskyism as others far more talented than I. Admittedly, my wit is far from rapier.
Witness the onslaught of left wing radical wannabe Alinskys who regularly visit to take a crap on Post Scripts. Amazingly the Post Scripts blog allows them to. An unappreciated testimony to their total, committed moral imperative belief in freedom of speech. Something NEVER EVER seen on the left.) It is a weary pleasure to beat and beat-up these left wing radicals by using their own game against them from time to time. May G-d forgive me. Besides, Saul Alinsky is actually relatively easy (yet I make no claim to be adept).
Remember, like the eloquent and passionate David Horowitz I was once one of these self-absorbed, “consensus building” (= socialist manipulation) hate-filled arrogant fools. I know them intimately. Like David Horowitz I was once immersed in similar or the same radical experiences, the including torture-murders committed by the Black Panthers of Oakland. I was once a young and impressionable volunteer working for the stumbling and bumbling radial left wing propaganda machine Pacifica when the classical liberals were deposed by the left wing radicals. My only claim to fame was it wasn’t long for me to get a clue and leave that complete insanity behind.
Want to know more about Pacifica (now broadcast on PBS)? Do a search for Pacifica on the David Horowitz founded http://www.discoverthenetworks.org, but start here —
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/pacificaexpandedprofile.html
and here —
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=4&x_outlet=23&x_article=144
“Is it too difficult to grasp the notion that the commitment to create a caliphate has survived since the founding and that it could be significant ….”
Yes, and then there’s Zionism, Communism, and any number of other “ism’s”, ancient and modern, with which we contend.
The way I see it, yer Jihadis and yer Zionists both make a lot of noise, but global domination, even regional domination … it’s just not in the cards. I really don’t understand why you get yourself into such a tizz over belief systems and behavior that that are regrettable but, for the time being, manageable by means other than war.
This could change. It could. But not, I think, in our lifetimes. And for the rest of out lifetimes we are going to mitigate, not militate, cause that’s what civilized people do, for just as long as they can.
Libby: ” I really don’t understand why you get yourself into such a tizz over belief systems and behavior that that are regrettable but, for the time being, manageable by means other than war.”
A. I don’t know why you experience what I write as me being “in a tizz”…unless its so that you can be in a tizz.
B. We are at war, you just refuse to acknowledge it, or complain, or make snide remarks when your guy is in the WH.
C. Like it or not this enemy to freedom is actively engaged. I submit they are active in covert ways that you would rather pretend don’t exist and matter…to each her own. I prefer to be armed with understanding and knowledge so that history has a chance to forewarn.
“…cause that’s what civilized people do, for just as long as they can.’
The Jews were quite civilized right up to their uncivilized end after which the civilized world was quite shocked at their demise. The lesson to the civilized world should be obvious…learn from history and never ignore the monster with the warm smile.
and by the way Libs…this was about education. Students in America are not being taught the full history of the Crusades and Islamic Jihad…they should be!
Re: #11 Libby
Interesting. I can find no modern evidence of terrorism inspired by “Zionism” in current events and government statistics. “Zionists” compare to Islamic Jihadis? Seems to me yer left wing idiots and their absurd equivalencies are far more dangerous than yer “Zionists”.
The Zion Harmonizers (slam that volume up!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL0cGLue-iE
“Like it or not this enemy to freedom is actively engaged. I submit they are active in covert ways that you would rather pretend don’t exist and matter ….”
What? Some young woman in a head scarf is going to subvert your beliefs? That would be your weakness, problem, whatever, wouldn’t it?
“The Jews were quite civilized right up to their uncivilized end ….”
But they haven’t ended.
However, should the Chico City Council go all Jihadi and roll out the boxcars, I’ll be on the baracades with you … you silly woman.
“I can find no modern evidence of terrorism inspired by ‘Zionism’.”
That is because you have no imagination … and so cannot imagine yourself a Palestinian. They can tell you about terrorism. Yes, they can.
Libby: “Some young woman in a head scarf is going to subvert your beliefs?”
Libby I have never characterized the enemy as a young woman in a head scarf and I never would! If you are unwilling to discuss the enemy there isn’t any point in reading, much less responding to your witless comments.
@#16 Typical. There are no people committing evil acts in the name of religion in the world. Your willingness to tolerate aggressors as victims is the reason this goes on year after ugly year.
Pie @ #14 dangerous folks! Probably send their kids to harmony schools so they can send them out to vocalize to the world.
I missed this incredibly cold remark by Libby:
“But they haven’t ended.” (Jews)
Six million murdered, some of them in the most heinous and cruel manner imaginable.
Cold…and either ignorant or in denial of reality.
Back to your happy bubble Libby.
Pie Guevara: “Like David Horowitz I was once immersed in similar or the same radical experiences, the including torture-murders committed by the Black Panthers of Oakland.”
…
…What?
Pie Guevara: “I can find no modern evidence of terrorism inspired by ‘Zionism’.”
Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
Of course, there’s no comparison to the influence and reach of Islamist terrorists. The threat of other religious terrorist groups shouldn’t be outright dismissed, but nor should it be equated to the much larger threat of Islamist terrorism.
Still, it’s ridiculous to say that the latter threat doesn’t receive enough attention in our society. As Tina correctly points out, we are in a war against these people right now. Our entire national security apparatus has been fundamentally changed. Muslim acts of terror are not ignored, they are seen constantly on the news. Ask Arab actors how routinely they get work playing terrorists and maybe you’ll get a different perspective on how common this portrayal is in the media. This “anti-jihadist” stance you guys like to take on as if you’re the lone brave voices in a sea of PC gone awry might be nice for your self-esteem, but it isn’t based in reality. And when you post nothing but negativity about the Muslim religion as a whole, not just the extremists, it does make you look a bit bigoted.
Re #21 Chris and other above:
Thank you for the link to the Jewish Defense League. Interesting that they are not listed in the U.S. State Department lists of terrorist organizations. Maybe I missed something. It appears that JDL activities are miniscule compared to Islamic terrorism. Nevertheless, terrorism is terrorism, thugs are thugs, gangsters are gangsters, Nazis are Nazis, and Islamo-fascism is Islamo-fascism.
In particular: “This “anti-jihadist” stance you guys like to take on as if you’re the lone brave voices in a sea of PC gone awry might be nice for your self-esteem, but it isn’t based in reality. And when you post nothing but negativity about the Muslim religion as a whole, not just the extremists, it does make you look a bit bigoted.”
Huh? YOU ARE PRO-JIHADIST??? What a pants load. I knew you were a thoughtless left-wing bigot with blinders after the first two posts I ever read from you. How many times have I posted links to Islamic reformist organizations and reformist Islamic persons? I have posted on such AT LENGTH. I have also posted on how many (if not most) Muslims came to America (LEGALLY!) to escape the horrors of Islam in Islamic theocracies. You obviously never followed a single link! If you think I am going to re-post now, just for you, drop dead.
Chris you like to pretend Islam benign. You refuse to understand Islam is not merely a religion but a theocratic system of government and judicial oppression and suppression. If you wish to continue to lay your left-wing bigoted nonsense on others for noting how Islam has a significant history of violence and brutality that continues to this day, BE MY GUEST! I wash my hands of your stink.
On the Black Panthers tortures and murders: I am not going to do your homework for you, but you can start here —
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Betty_Van_Patter
Re #16 Libby: “That is because you have no imagination”
You do not know a darn thing about me but presume too. Read #7 above.