Posted by Tina
This morning in a bid to finally fulfill a campaign promise, the President, announced a four point plan to close Gitmo. He claims the facility doesn’t advance American security and is against our values. (Horsepucky) The ninety remaining detainees would be transfered to American prisons:
Transitioning to a U.S. detention facility would entail one-time costs between $290 million and $475 million, but within three to five years, the lower operating cost of a U.S. facility with fewer detainees could fully offset the transition costs, according to a plan released by the Pentagon.
His decision follows his repeated contention that the facility acts as a “recruitment tool” for terrorists rings. The fallacy in the argument seems obvious…why would changing the location change recruiting? In fact, wouldn’t placing terrorists just increase recruitment in our prisons?
Obama insists our allies demand that we close Gitmo every time he talks with them. Which allies would that be? Iran? Cuba?
Congress passed a legislation forbidding the President to transfer detainees to American prisons. The people have not been demanding closure. Democrats did it just to undermine Bush during his presidency. Of course the President does have a pen, a phone, and a strong propensity to act like a dictator. After seven years with a pen and a phone this announcement is absolutely pathetic.
After Bush political appointees at the U.S. Office of Legal Counsel, Department of Justice advised the Bush administration that the Guantanamo Bay detention camp could be considered outside U.S. legal jurisdiction, military guards took the first twenty detainees to Guantanamo on 11 January 2002. The Bush administration asserted that detainees were not entitled to any of the protections of the Geneva Conventions. Ensuing U.S. Supreme Court decisions since 2004 have determined otherwise and that the courts have jurisdiction: it ruled in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld on 29 June 2006, that detainees were entitled to the minimal protections listed under Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions.[6] Following this, on 7 July 2006, the Department of Defense issued an internal memo stating that detainees would, in the future, be entitled to protection under Common Article 3.[7][8]
Current and former detainees have reported abuse and torture, which the Bush administration denied. In a 2005 Amnesty International report, the facility was called the “Gulag of our times.”[9] In 2006, the United Nations called unsuccessfully for the Guantanamo Bay detention camp to be closed.[10] In January 2009, Susan J. Crawford, appointed by Bush to review DoD practices used at Guantanamo Bay and oversee the military trials, became the first Bush administration official to concede that torture occurred at Guantanamo Bay on one detainee.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp
…But yeah, call the guy who wants to close this place a “dictator.”
Obumble has a couple of problems with bringing the GITMO detainees to the US. Clowngress is one, and getting approval from whatever State da prez wants to send them is another.
Unless, of course, he can move the detainees to his mansion in Chicago . . . . .
The Chris troll whines and lambastes! All wring their hands! All cry that those enemy combatants at war with us be given fair trials in our judicial system! No military detention facilities! We are not really at war, there is no Islamic extremist terrorist movement waging war against us!
Is it any wonder why I think, to paraphrase Dickens, the left is an ass?
I agree, Obama has a strong propensity to act like a dictator, as in one who dictates and rules by fiat, lackeys, and intimidation instead of law. If that observation by Post Scripts sends him off in a tizzy, hey, what is not to like?
The Bush administration was, of course, wrong to assert that the Guantanamo bay military detention facility was outside of U.S. legal jurisdiction and not subject to the protections of article 3 of the Geneva convention.
Let Obama close Gitmo and send the remaining prisoners to Saudi for detention or to his mansion in Chicago. The next president, who understands the threat to the US terrorism represents, can always open it up again.
The Obama claim that the Guantanamo bay detention facility “recruits terrorists” is not merely fallacious, it is a bald faced lie, which is something I have come to expect from him and his administration.
“The Bush administration was, of course, wrong to assert that the Guantanamo bay military detention facility was outside of U.S. legal jurisdiction and not subject to the protections of article 3 of the Geneva convention.”
Yes. Dictatorial, ruling by fiat and intimidation, one might say.
And your point about Obama is? Oh, wait, I get it, you do not have one.
YES!!
Chris you are a fool for the simple reason that you refuse to consider context and rely entirely on hard left opinion (often Alinsky attitude) and talking points.
Bush was looking fora solution to a problem the entire world had never encountered, what to do with enemy combatants captured (rather than slaughtered) in battle. After coming under attack by radical lefties, his response was to follow what Congress and the courts decided. Yeah, he’s was real dictator, alright…he did what the law and Congress dictated. Funny those same radical left lawyers went silent after Obama was elected and have been silent ever since.
There is no comparison between the two men…NONE!
“After coming under attack by radical lefties, his response was to follow what Congress and the courts decided. Yeah, he’s was real dictator, alright…he did what the law and Congress dictated.”
After claiming that congress and U.S. law did not apply to Guantanamo Bay, and then having that claim utterly demolished. You think he deserves credit for being forced to follow the law after trying to weasel out of it? Wow.
“You think he deserves credit for being forced to follow the law after trying to weasel out of it? Wow.
Stupid comment. Challenges to policy and law happen all of the time. The word “forced” doesn’t apply since his attitude was cooperative and he made no attempt to block or “weasel” out of whatever was decided by congress.
The current occupant is a much better example of the label you hope to affix to Bush.
“Stupid comment. Challenges to policy and law happen all of the time. The word “forced” doesn’t apply since his attitude was cooperative and he made no attempt to block or “weasel” out of whatever was decided by congress.”
His initial claim was that he didn’t need congressional approval or to follow the Geneva conventions. That is, by definition, “weaseling out.” You’re being ridiculous.
Off Topic (but sort of related)
The war being waged on us (and the rest of civilization) by Islamo-fascists and the closing of Gitmo aside, here is some eye-opening evidence of how Obama rules. Why on earth do you think the DOJ would refuse to fulfill its duty and obligation to defend the U.S. Election Assistance Commission in a specious case brought by the left to subvert proof-of-citizenship voter-registration requirements in Kansas, Georgia, Alabama, and Arizona? Hmmmmm?
An Extraordinary Beat-Down for the DOJ
by Hans A. von Spakovsky February 22, 2016 9:26 PM
I attended a hearing on Monday afternoon before District of Columbia federal district court Judge Richard J. Leon that was one of the most “extraordinary” federal court hearings I have ever attended, to use Judge Leon’s description of the case. The hearing was over the temporary restraining order (TRO) and preliminary injunction (PI) being sought by the League of Women Voters and a host of other leftist groups to stop the recent decision of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission (EAC) to allow Kansas, Georgia, Alabama, and Arizona to enforce their proof-of-citizenship voter-registration requirement.
Continue reading the astonishing courtroom developments
here while asking yourselves, why on earth would the DOJ behave like this?
Voter ID laws are themselves specious, since in-person voter fraud almost never happens, and requiring proof of citizenship does little other than turn away legal voters. A basic cost-benefit analysis shows that voter ID laws create more problems than they solve.
Horsefeathers! The reason Dirtier Harry won his last term as NV Senator was due to voter fraud by ACORN – and they were prosecuted and convicted for it.
You can bet the farm that ANY state with same-day voter registration will be a target for Demwit voter fraud come November.
And today, NY is starting to register ILLEGALS to vote. If that isn’t voter fraud, I don’t know what is!
Bullpucky!
While there were a few employees who behaved badly many orgs were at the time. Both Parties. This Accorn crap is way out of proportion.
GW Bush was not elected! He was supreme court appointed!
Same day registration is crucial to those who get transferred because of their jobs ect.
Bottom Line I say paper ballots only and a thumb print on the ballot. It is a federal crime to cheat.
Show me the documented proof where fraudulent ballots changed an election.
I will show you proof of electronic vote flipping! I will show you thousands of votes not counted because of a typo. A judge in Texas who would not have been allowed to vote because of a typo but they knew her.
Why was Karl Rove so positive Fox News had the election results wrong in 2012? Because he had it rigged electronically.
The Anons claimed they hacked into the electronic vote switching gate and closed it. Funny how Rove reacted on camera………
Bottom line everybody will be happy if we have paper ballots and a thumb print. Demand it I am!
The GOP has changed elections cheating and you act like the party is some kind of honest org. Both are corporate owned lobbies.
Voter fraud is not an issue and bottom line the conservatives loose whenever everybody votes.
The GOP will be rigging this election beyond belief that is why they think they will appoint Scalia’s spot.
This is not a conservative Nation of authoritarian capitalism and we will fight til the end.
Dewey name the right wing organization that was suspected or found guilty of voter fraud.
I’ve informed you before and will do it again…the Supreme Court did not “appoint” George Bush. th Supreme Court ruled on a question having to do with Florida voting laws and decided that Florida could not change laws in the middle of an election…something the cheating democrats hoped they could accomplish!
Also, several publications and journalists investigated and found that GWB won the election. So your ignorant, specious accusation is absolutely FALSE!
If fraudulent voting is not a problem why are Democrats trying so hard register people who are in the country illegally?
This is not a nation of authoritarian capitalism…IT IS A FREE NATION that supports capitalism, over socialism, as the best choice for opportunity for everyone.
The authoritarians are on the left who demand big government control in our lives…freedom is the left’s enemy.
You fight for your own demise fool!
J, my understanding of the (unproven) accusations about Harry Reid is that he won through rigged voter machines, not in-person voter fraud.
Can you explain to me how a voter ID law would solve the problem of rigged voting machines?
NY illegals registered huh, for “party” favors from the Liberals called tax dollar entitlements. from a little Acorn a spreading tree grows.
And I just heard that Osama Bin Laden is now a registered voter in Chicago, guess that verifies he is dead!
Harold: “NY illegals registered huh, for “party” favors from the Liberals called tax dollar entitlements. from a little Acorn a spreading tree grows.”
What does this mean?
The Liar Of The Left has spoken! All bow to the liar. Of course, The Liar has no dog in this race, right?
Of course The Liar does not speak to the amazing, idiotic garbage his fellow liars and their stooges in the DOJ tried to pull in Judge Richard J. Leon’s courtroom.
So, The Liar takes his fall back of repeating his idiotic lies. Cost-benefit ANALysis my donkey. From whom, by whom? Take it up with Kansas, Georgia, Alabama, and Arizona, liar.
Pie, your Tourette’s is getting in the way of your writing and logical skills, which is a shame, as you obviously have some. I put forward that voter ID laws cause more problems than they solve, since they turn away more legitimate voters than illegitimate ones; this has been borne out by several studies. Now it’s your turn to explain why my argument is either wrong or unimportant.
Instead, you called me a liar seven times in eight sentences, while at no point demonstrating that anything I said was a lie.
If you’d like, I just taught counter-argument and rebuttal to my eighth graders, and I’d love to send you some of my lesson plans if you need a refresher. But I think you know how to do it; you just choose not to. You’re perfectly capable of writing and arguing better than this, you just get lazy and lash out when things don’t go your way. I know a few people like that, but most of them are twelve.
Off Topic
The gift that keeps on giving …
“A federal judge on Tuesday ruled that State Department officials and top aides to Hillary Clinton should be questioned under oath about whether they intentionally thwarted federal open records laws by using or allowing the use of a private email server throughout Clinton’s tenure as secretary of state from 2009 to 2013.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/us-judge-weighs-deeper-probe-into-clintons-private-email-system/2016/02/23/9c27412a-d997-11e5-81ae-7491b9b9e7df_story.html
Back in 2009 the court sought clarification on the definition of “enemy combatant” and military trials were “delayed.”
The issue of closing Gitmo has been “delayed” for seven long years now. Apparently closing Gitmo is only important to Obama in terms of his legacy and not in terms of legally solving the problem.
One of the lawyers defending a terrorist made the most extraordinary statement at the time:
The ignorant excuse that we should treat terrorists as common criminals because they prefer to be treated as enemy combatants is bad enough, but calling them “folks” is a joke.
Hard left radicals work feverishly to undermine the war effort…at least they did until Obama was firmly ensconced in the WH and they ran into the same legal and military uncertainties that the Bush administration faced.
Common article III of the Geneva Conventions, which deals with conflicts involving non-state actors, forbids detention practices that are cruel, degrading, or humiliating.
From the start the detainees have been fed religiously appropriate meals. They were given a copy of the Koran. They were provided a prayer rug so they could follow their religious obligation. They receive good medical attention. They have been visited by the Red Cross and they have access to lawyers. They are healthier than they were when we picked them up…they can play soccer for heavens sake.
Claims that they are being mistreated are specious political lies. The fact that nothing of substance to close the facility has been done for seven years should sound deafening alarm bells of attestation in that regard..
Before Obama was elected the Republicans were talking about closing it. After the Tea Party Coup no so much. They are to obstruct Obama at all costs. The only people to do anything in gov are Conservatives.
“Republicans are opposed because they tend to support the Republican ideology/fear tactics that led to Gitmo and military tribunals, there is also the issue that representatives don’t want terror suspects in their home states because they don’t want the political liability. It’s called cowardice.”
Somewhere near a million a year per inmate. WASTED SPENDING!
“Before Obama was elected the Republicans were talking about closing it.”
Where did you get this information and in what context did they consider closing it?
“Republicans are opposed because they tend to support the Republican ideology/fear tactics that led to Gitmo and military tribunals…”
What fear tactics led to Gitmo and military tribunals?
Military tribunals are appropriate; the choice was made consciously.
I think I have finally figured out Dewey. He took LSD and watched the movie “V for Vendetta” 36 times in a row.
Heh. That is a great movie, but it misses the point of the graphic novel by a country mile; V isn’t a hero, he’s a terrorist, as was Guy Fawkes, and his methods make him just as much a monster as the fascist government he’s fighting.
But it’s still a great movie.
Tina, I don’t know where you’re getting your summer camp idea of Guantanamo Bay from, but it’s incredibly naive. The reality:
“A 2013 Institute on Medicine as a Profession report concluded that health professionals working with the military and intelligence services “designed and participated in cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment and torture of detainees”. Medical professionals were ordered to ignore ethical standards during involvement in abusive interrogation, including monitoring of vital signs under stress-inducing procedures. They used medical information for interrogation purposes and participated in force-feeding of hunger strikers, in violation of World Medical Association and American Medical Association prohibitions.[48][49][50][51][52]
Supporters of controversial techniques have declared that certain protections of the Third Geneva Convention do not apply to Al-Qaeda or Taliban fighters, claiming that the Convention only applies to military personnel and guerrillas who are part of a chain of command, wear distinctive insignia, bear arms openly, and abide by the rules of war. Jim Phillips of The Heritage Foundation has said that “some of these terrorists who are not recognized as soldiers don’t deserve to be treated as soldiers.”[53] Critics of U.S. policy, such as George Monbiot, claimed the government had violated the Conventions in attempting to create a distinction between “prisoners of war” and “illegal combatants.”[54][55] Amnesty International has called the situation “a human rights scandal” in a series of reports.[56]
One of the allegations of abuse at the camp is the abuse of the religion of the detainees.[57][58][59][60][61][62] The U.S. government has claimed that they respect all religious and cultural sensitivities. Prisoners released from the camp have alleged incidents of abuse of religion including flushing the Quran down the toilet, defacing the Quran, writing comments and remarks on the Quran, tearing pages out of the Quran and denying detainees a copy of the Quran. One of the justifications offered for the continued detention of Mesut Sen, during his Administrative Review Board hearing, was:[63]
“Emerging as a leader, the detainee has been leading the detainees around him in prayer. The detainees listen to him speak and follow his actions during prayer.”
Red Cross inspectors and released detainees have alleged acts of torture,[64][65] including sleep deprivation, beatings and locking in confined and cold cells.”
” I don’t know where you’re getting your summer camp idea of Guantanamo Bay from, but it’s incredibly naive. ”
Oh really. I’d say that much of above information is specious leftist horse hockey and/or ridiculous naivete regarding the fierceness and commitment these men have to murdering us. The lefts approach to these men is not only naive, it is preschool naive.
The detainees have been know to throw urine and feces at the guards and to spit on them or bite. The guards, disciplined military men and women, treat the detainees with respect despite their nasty behavior.
Sleep deprivation, isolation, and other harsh methods are not uncommon when interrogating someone like the man who helped conceived of 911. You remember that day. Or do you! Do you keep in mind the images of what the terrorists chose to do with their education, wealth, and talents or is that bit of information lost on you?
Few of the men were interrogated through extraordinary means.
All of them have lived (since those early days) in luxury compared to the insidious comparison to a gulag made by lefty Amnesty International’s Secretary General Irene Zubeida Khan.
The same radical left people that have hissy fits over GWB and Gitmo say and do very little about the human rights abuses of these men and the regimes and religious ideals that spawn them. They have also been silent for the last seven plus years.
I got my information from a guard who spent a great deal of time there. He is now a journalist and is fed up with the leftist lies about what goes on there. He went back with a camera. The facility they live in is superior to the prisons to which these men would be transferred. Their cells are clean and include internet, television, an arrow pointing to Mecca, and appropriate meals:
They also have access to a fairly extensive library of books and video. The Koran is handled by guards wearing gloves.
Tina, are you accusing the Red Cross of lying when they said there were acts of torture at Gitmo? Are they a “radical left” organization in your opinion?
Chris I have no idea whether the Red Cross is political. In my opinion the Red Cross assumes a definition of torture that I do not share.
We have discussed this on more than one occasion as you should recall. I have no interest in repeating the discussion.
In any case the disputed “acts of torture” are not ongoing and so do not reflect the overall conditions at Gitmo. The conditions are as I described them. America has treated these monsters well by any standard you wish to name, period!
“Chris I have no idea whether the Red Cross is political. In my opinion the Red Cross assumes a definition of torture that I do not share.”
They assume the legal definition, which you have previously refused to accept as legitimate. I remember asking why you think your opinion on the definition of torture–or Bush’s, or anyone elses’–should supersede the legal definition, and you wouldn’t answer.
It’s almost like you think you’re above the law or something.
If The English Major is going to rip off Wikipedia word for word to make his points for him, the very least he could do is acknowledge them.
My bad. I did cite it in the first comment, but forgot to in the second. Sorry.
Geez, Tina, if you weren’t such a craven little thing, and even a little bit consistent about prudent spending (which you never once have been), you’d have been agitating for Gitmo closure for the last seven years.
To spend that sum of money to incarcerate that sum of fellows is obscene.
Spending at the federal level to defend the nation is constitutional.
Not much you socialists spend on is. What you waste in the process, in terms of money and loss of human potential, is deplorable. that you feel so dam* puffed up about it is obscene.
Tina: “Spending at the federal level to defend the nation is constitutional.”
Sure, but I think Libby’s point is that this particular bit of spending isn’t smart, and certainly isn’t fiscally conservative, when we could hold them elsewhere without spending nearly as much money.