George Floyd Death – Murder, Accident or Natural Causes

by Jack

The court of public opinion, famous for getting it wrong, has ruled the death of George Floyd a deliberate homicide by one police officer. That one officer, whether innocent or guilty now seems to represent the entire 700,000 police officers in America.  If I were him, I would at least ask for a raise, doesn’t seem like $62k a year is nearly enough for all that responsibility.  3 other officers were found guilty by association, not sure how they can be charged with a murder, so it must be guilt by association. 

Meanwhile, the media circus continues unabated;  Saint Floyd the Martyr has been laid to rest in his golden coffin, with full honors and accolades befitting the most notable champions of the civil rights cause, like Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Malcom X, Congressman William J. Jefferson and the great orator, Sir Rodney King.  

However, there is one little problem.  This case must actually go to trial to determine guilt using evidence.   Dangit!   This is where things get a bit sticky, because pesky facts can get in the way of what otherwise was a slam dunk case using public opinion and hearsay.

A trial court will hear from the Coroner about the actual cause of death.  This is going to be a big hurdle because Floyd’s years of drug and alcohol abuse left him with life threatening heart problems and the stress of resisting arrest could have lead to heart failure.  Yeah, that’s a tough one, but it gets worse for the prosecution.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, try this little experiment.  Have someone, preferably someone you trust, who weighs about 65% of your body weight, kneel on the right side of your neck as you lay on your left side.  Go very slowly, we don’t want you to break anything!  Allow the applying of more and more weight to your neck and when it starts to close off your airway, yell stop.   I suggest you continue talking too to see if this action impedes your voice.

What did you learn from this reenactment?

Well, if your anatomy is like most human beings you will note that your windpipe (trachea) is located in the [front] of your throat.  Putting a knee on the right side your neck doesn’t close off your airway (trachea).  That’s like trying to choke someone with only one hand and no fingers, its possible, but its nearly impossible.

Placing a knee across your thyroid cartilage (adams apple) might do it, but that’s not what happened here.  We are talking about a knee on the right side of neck only.

Now I ask you, (remember you are under oath now) is it [possible] to close off the trachea (wind pipe) by placing a knee on the right side of the neck?  The answer is a technical… yes.  But, now I ask you, is it [likely] to cause choking and death?  The answer must be, no.

Now given the condition of George Floyd’s heart and arteries, is it [possible] that he suffered a stress induced heart attack?  The answer must be yes.  Is it [likely] that he suffered a heart attack and that was the proximate cause of death?  Again, the answer must be, yes.   Is it [ highly likely] that he actually died from heart attack cause by his resisting to arrest?  The answer is an unequivocal, yes.  Now lets take a look at the toxiccology report, if it shows illegal drugs in his system, especially meth a medical would have to say drugs amplify underlying medical conditions and the combination of alcohol and drugs, plus bad heart, plus blocked arteries and resisting arrest are far more likely that anything else to be the cause of death.

Experts will tell you that when you choke someone to death, they usually die before you stop choking them.  It’s very rare that a victim of choking will be alive when the ambulance arrives and then die while being transported to hospital.  This is what happens with heart attack victims.

Given the above circumstances, a medical pathologist might even go so far as to say the odds of a heart attack causing death in Mr. Floyd’s case is at least a 100,000 times more likely than a suffocation death caused by a collapsed trachea due specifically to right side pressure on the neck from a knee.  The likelihood of that happening is, as you have all demonstrated, a near impossibility.  Lets be honest, to say that was the cause of death is by no means a certainty.

All the…. “he said she said” testimony is nice, but it pales in comparison to the autopsy report listing the true cause of death.  The whole case should hinge on this report, but juries are fickle and sometimes they are bias.  If they believe a bought and paid for medical doctor over the county pathologist, justice may not be served.

However, this medical report is the first big hurdle that the prosecution must clear, because if they can’t show “beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty” that the officer’s actions by placing a knee on Floyd’s neck was the one and only proximate cause of Floyd’s death, nothing that follows matters much.   There is a lot to follow too,  beyond the medical report that also favors the officers defense.  This case is far, far from a slam dunk.

If the trial ends without a conviction for the lead defendant what then?  Back to burning down the city?

 

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22 Responses to George Floyd Death – Murder, Accident or Natural Causes

  1. Chris says:

    Both autopsies called Floyd’s death a homicide. That performed by the Hennepin County medical examiner cites “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression.” The private autopsy states the cause of death was “mechanical asphyxia.”

    If you kneel on someone’s neck and that causes them to have a heart attack, that remains your fault even if that person had underlying contributing conditions. In what moral universe is this hard to understand?

    • Joe says:

      Here’s what Chris cited

      https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/05/read-george-floyd-autopsy-report-with-cause-of-death-and-other-factors/

      That article said the cause of death was homicide. Read the autopsy reports linked in that article and nowhere will you find the word homicide or murder. To the contrary it says “No life-threatening injuries identified.” And it includes the toxicology report which shows Floyd had lethal levels of drugs in his system and had a host of comorbidities.

      This is how the left and the media lie to you and use those lies to whip a gullible public up into a frenzy. Don’t fall for their lies.

      • Chris says:

        Wrong. You simply don’t understand how to read the documents you are reading.

        Do the autopsies of George Floyd agree, or not? News reports from last week suggest the report produced by the Hennepin County medical examiner and the one produced by an examiner hired by Floyd’s family disagreed on his cause of death. The county ruled the cause to be “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression.” It also cited heart disease and drug use as factors that could have contributed to the death. The secondary autopsy, by contrast, specifically said Floyd died from asphyxia.

        So who is right? Well, both of them, experts who weren’t affiliated with the case said. In fact, according to forensic pathologists and medical experts, the two autopsy reports aren’t actually all that different in their conclusions. “They are just different ways of describing the same thing,” said Dr. Joye Carter, forensic pathologist to the sheriff of San Luis Obispo County, California. What’s more, experts told me, the autopsies of George Floyd help show the complexity of medical examinations, how those examinations work and what they can and cannot tell us.

        Some of the public confusion over Floyd’s autopsy reports can be blamed on misinterpretation by the media and the public, said Dr. Judy Melinek, a San Francisco-based forensic pathologist . “Anybody suggesting asphyxia was ruled out by the medical examiner is wrong,” she said. Indeed, lots of people suggested just that, with media describing the reports as “drastically different” and nearly describing the county report as absolving the white police officer who pressed his knee into Floyd’s back for 8 minutes.

        The Hennepin County autopsy may have mentioned factors beyond police conduct, but it was really just saying Floyd’s heart stopped while police were restraining him and pressing on his neck, said Melinek, Carter and Dr. Michael Freeman, professor of forensic medicine and epidemiology at Maastricht University in the Netherlands. It’s not a claim that he died of a heart attack, drugs, or pre-existing conditions, they told me. “The cause of death is police restraint,” Melinek said, just like in the autopsy Floyd’s family commissioned.

        The reason it might seem like the exams disagree, they said, is because people expect a single cause of death in an autopsy report. But most people don’t die from just one thing. Instead, both death certificates and autopsy evaluations are set up to tell as detailed a story as possible — death happened, as a result of something, complicated by another thing, and maybe with other factors that were present. You’re supposed to compile the full chain of events and all the possible compounding factors. But documenting potential contributing factors isn’t the same as saying that’s what caused the death.

        These reports — and the public confusion around them — also highlight how complex forensic pathology can really be. Take the confusion over asphyxiation. As he was dying, Floyd told the police officers that he couldn’t breathe, eventually stopped speaking and then went limp. So it surprised a lot of people when the autopsy reports came across as saying that they’d found no evidence of asphyxiation.

        That is both a misunderstanding of the report and an example of the difficulty in identifying cause of death, experts said. It’s a misunderstanding because an earlier legal document, put out to explain the charges against the officer who kneeled on Floyd, said the county had found no injuries consistent with asphyxia caused by physical trauma. But the actual autopsy report doesn’t mention the word “asphyxia” at all. It does, however, describe “neck compression” as a direct cause of Floyd’s death — meaning the blood flow (and, thus, oxygen) to Floyd’s brain and heart were cut off. It doesn’t take physical trauma to asphyxiate someone.

        And that’s where the difficulty of pinning down cause of death comes in, said Dr. Karl Williams, a forensic pathologist who is the chief medical examiner of Allegheny County (home to Pittsburgh), Pennsylvania. “After that video we know why he died,” Williams said. “But it doesn’t necessarily mean, OK, that there’s going to be any evidence of that.” You can make someone lose consciousness just by compressing the arteries and veins in their neck, cutting off blood flow to and from the brain, he told me. Williams said he has watched experts demonstrate this effect at conferences. People will lose consciousness after 7-to-10 seconds, he said. “It’s very reproducible. We vary on where the point of no return would be, but if you block those veins for three to four minutes, you’re dead.”

        But there’s no medical literature of what happens to a person’s body when someone kneels on their neck for more than eight minutes, as Derek Chauvin, the Minneapolis police officer now charged with second-degree murder, did to Floyd. So no medical examiner can call up that data and compare it to what they found in Floyd’s body, Williams told me. The result, he said, has been whole listserves full of medical examiners going over the evidence in the Floyd case and arguing back and forth for the past week about how they would write the report. “There certainly is individual variety,” Carter said. “Medicine is a practice and everything isn’t rubber stamped the same way.”

        https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-two-autopsies-of-george-floyd-arent-as-different-as-they-seem/

        And here is the press release from the Hennepin County ME that explicitly describes the manner of death as homicide.

        https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/MNHENNE/2020/06/01/file_attachments/1464238/2020-3700%20Floyd,%20George%20Perry%20Update%206.1.2020.pdf?referringSource=articleShare

        And of course, even if a third autopsy was done and found that Floyd just so happened to have a heart attack and this was completely unrelated to the knee that was on his neck for eight minutes, that would not change the fact that an officer kept his knee on Floyd’s neck for eight minutes, nor would it justify that officer’s actions.

        Maybe if I told you George Floyd was a Confederate monument rather than a black man, you’d be angry that he was unlawfully taken down.

        • Joe says:

          So what sentence in the autopsy reports states that the police killed Floyd? And please quote the entire paragraph so nothing is taken out of context like you slimey liberals so often do. The fact is you can’t because it doesn’t exist.

          At the time of his death Floyd had extremely high levels of very dangerous drugs in his system and he had co-morbidities. He was a very ill, drug addicted man who could have keeled over at any moment. Can you refute that? Absolutely not.

          • Chris says:

            It doesn’t matter, Joe. The autopsies both make clear that were it not for the knee on his neck, he would not have died that day. You seem to believe that you can erase that knee from history if you simply ignore it. Why not instead fight for the future, to ensure that no other knees are placed on any other necks? That’s what a person who cared about freedom, individual rights, and small government would do. Pointing to the pre-existing conditions of a citizen who was killed by a knee on his neck is something a boot-licking, Big Government-loving authoritarian would do. Which are you?

          • Joe says:

            Where in the reports does it say the knee on the neck caused the injury?

  2. Joe says:

    Jack, here are some more peaceful protestors…

    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1284988892471599104

    Why aren’t the cops or anyone else stopping them? And this has been going on for many weeks.

    This could be stopped in short order. Arrest, convict and then publicly hang the guilty and that would put an end to this.

    • Chris says:

      “publicly hang the guilty ”

      This is what it always comes back to, right? Fascist.

      • Joe says:

        Wrong. It’s called responsibility and deterrence. If these BLM and Antifa thugs new they could be hung if found guilty of looting and violence how long do you think the looting and violence would last?

        • Post Scripts says:

          Joe, how long do you think the rioting and looting would last if that mob of Marxist degenerates was suddenly confronted by much larger, much more angry, and heavily armed mob of genuine patriotic Americans fed up with their BS?

          • Harold says:

            Yep, It would surprise me, and it is likely to happen.

            The Liberals have worked so hard at dividing this county, and it seems conceivable it is happening.

          • Harold says:

            oops ….wouldn’t…..

          • Chris says:

            Harold, is talking about hanging looters “divisive?”

          • Post Scripts says:

            Chris, I guess it all depends on how you define “hang.” Now hanging a fine painting to me is to place it up high where everybody can admire it. Maybe Harold just wants to hang rioters up high, so we can all admire them? Nothing wrong with that, in fact that’s downright neighborly of him. Rioters like to be seen, so in a way Harold would only be giving them exactly what they are asking for.

        • Harold says:

          Thanks Jack, however we all know to accept Chris’s comment about hanging is a non-issue, once again he uses rancor and dissension through false implications.

          If he isn’t being insulting, almost to a childlike state, then he will use contentious methods of implying or twisting words about something that is not so.

          He can be quoted as saying he believes in rule of law.

          Chris omitted the part about being his rules and his law, as is typical of his subjective posts about opinions that differ from his.

  3. Peggy says:

    How about a trip back in time to Biden’s, not so long ago past?

    Hope this FB article posts.
    https://www.facebook.com/ConservativeTreehouse/photos/pcb.3109861375715879/3109861159049234

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