Posted by Tina
The latest news about “Operation Fast and Furious” is pretty disturbing. Fast and Furious is the government program that arranged for straw buyers to purchase guns from gun dealers in America to be sold later to drug cartels across the Mexican border. As we reported earlier, the deaths of several Mexican citizens and an American border patrol agent, were found to be tied to these guns. Now, according to an IBD editorial, it’s been discovered that Eric Holder took credit for the program in a speech he gave in Mexico in April 2009 and the program was funded with stimulus money:
Holder told the audience: “Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner. DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion.”
IBD also recalled an interview the president gave in March in which he denied knowledge of the program for himself and Eric Holder:
During an interview with a Univision reporter that aired in March, Obama said he was “absolutely not” informed about the ATF program that deliberately funneled guns into Mexico. “I did not authorize it,” he said. “Eric Holder, the attorney general, did not authorize it. He’s been very clear that our policy is to catch gunrunners and put them into jail.”
The whistle blower is telling a differnet story as, apparently, are others involved in the case.
You can read more about this story here, here, here, and here.
I am shocked! I just do not see how this could have possibly gone wrong I mean this Idea clearly came from the great minds at ACME manufacturing. Their stuff always worked out so well for the coyote.
Obama is a pile of dog s@#$, Americans and Mexicans died! I know it doesn’t rhyme but its 100% accurate.
The ATF director isn’t going to sit still and be the fall guy on this. Darryl Issa’s committee has its work cut out for them. Follow the orders given up the line until they find out who is responsible.
If the AG is the culprit, an indictment should follow. If the knowledge extends further up the food chain then perhaps an impeachment inquiry is needed.
This was on the radio yesterday for hours.
This is not news.
This is propaganda.
This is not even true.
To say the administration planned to give guns to foreigners is a lie.
You are incorrect.
Would love to see the families of those that died because of this bring civil suits against Holder, Obama and everyone else involved with this.
Force them to do a deposition where they can’t take the 5th.
I can see Obama dressed up like Master Yoda pulling his jedi mind tricks. “These are not the droids you are looking for.” “oh and Project Gunrunner is nothing but propaganda”.
Laughing, aka Quentin, has a point in that some of this article is inaccurate. You’re conflating “Operation Fast and Furious” with “Project Gunrunner,” and they aren’t the same thing.
From right-wing blog Confederate Yankee:
“I’ve seen several claims in the past 24 hours that “prove” that Attorney General Eric Holder, or Congress, or the President, or the Pope, knew about Gunwalker/Fast and Furious because of a speech someone made, or because of legislation being proposed or because of a line item in the Stimulus bill.
I would strongly urge caution in these matters.
Please Keep in mind that Gunrunner is a long-term cartel weapons interdiction program that kicked off during the previous administration. there is no indication that Gunrunner has ever been anything but above-board. The program/project framework has long been used in business and government, with the program being the general vision, with individual projects/operations as steps towards realizing that vision…
Gunwalker/Fast and Furious was a specific secret operation or project within the much larger framework of Gunrunner. A list of all operations with the Gunrunner program is not publicly available, but I would be stunned if the total number of projects wasn’t several dozen, or more, with many or most of them being covert and unknown to the public.
Gunwalker and Gunrunner are not the same thing even though they are related. We have enough evidence coming inat a pace “fast and furious,” one might sayand do not need to make leaps of logic. There is no need to jump the gun or make wild accusations.
Justice will be served.”
http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/318531.php
However, we should all be outraged by the allegations against the administration if they are true. Honestly, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if they were. When it comes to this administration’s ideas of national security, they are just as bumbling and careless of American and international law as the Bush administration was. Continuing the Patriot Act, failure to close Guantanamo, the solitary confinement of Bradley Manning, the possibly illegal war in Libya, their huge crackdown on whistleblowers…the list goes on and on, and I can’t ignore the abuses of power by this administration just because they happen to be Democrats. We should expect more from them.
Chris: “there is no indication that Gunrunner has ever been anything but above-board.”
There are several indicators to create suspicion of wrongdoing: 1. Under Bush these guns were confiscated at the border but someone under Obama made the decision to let them get through into Mexico…why? 2. The testimony of Kenneth Melson, held in private due to intimidation. 3. The gun evidence – guns were sold by government order and were allowed to flow into Mexico; we know because they were discoverd at murder scenes.
There are enough questions that Congress has seen fit to hold hearings.
I’m not familiar with Confederate Yankee…the name alone???? Anyway, I can’t comment on your source.
Several other sources are listed above; they have apparently found this story worthy of notice.
The names being used do need clarification but that doesn’t change the fact that something bad was going on and it should be investigated.
Q in disguise is easy to spot…you certainly nailed that one 😉
Tina: “There are several indicators to create suspicion of wrongdoing:”
Oh, I agree with you on that. But the wrongdoing was done specifically as a part of “Fast and Furious,” which is only one part of “Project Gunrunner.”
“I’m not familiar with Confederate Yankee…the name alone??? Anyway, I can’t comment on your source.?”
It’s a conservative blog, and the author of that post is pretty pissed about Fast and Furious, as he should be. He just wants to make sure the terms are clarified.
“Several other sources are listed above; they have apparently found this story worthy of notice.”
And good for them. I especially like NPR and the Christian Science Monitor.
“The names being used do need clarification but that doesn’t change the fact that something bad was going on and it should be investigated.”
Again, I completely agree. (Feels good to say that to you for once!)
Chris: “the wrongdoing was done specifically as a part of “Fast and Furious,” which is only one part of “Project Gunrunner.”
Thank you for making the distinction and offering our readers clarification.
“Again, I completely agree. (Feels good to say that to you for once!)”
I appreciate that…feels good to me too.
Here is another informative article with a video of Obama saying he knew nothing of the operation. There are links to the letter Issa sent to Holder concerning Melon meeting with the committee and a video of Issa questioning Holder about the operation, his knowledge about it and his delay tactics in responding to the committees request for information.
All worth viewing to hear the actual exchange in their own words and the whole letter sent to Holder.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/did-the-attorney-general-mislead-congress-on-operation-fast-and-furious/
Ok enough already, you two go get a room! lol
LOL…no worries Toby, I’m much too senior for Chris…besides, we’ll probably both be back in the ring with our gloves on in no time.
Listen for the bell….
Readers with an interest in this story will appreciate the following article. It’s written by a Marine who has been investigating this on or near the border.
Tina: No article.
Oooops sorry Peggy…here you go:
http://www.salem-news.com/articles/july092011/holder-atf-death-tk.php
Here is proof from a press conference by Ogden in March Obama and Holder knew about it.
=======
Project Gun Runner (Fast and Furious) was launched under the orders of President Barack Obama with the knowledge of Attorney General Eric Holder. Deputy Attorney General David Ogden announced the Obama Administrations new and aggressive comprehensive plan on March, 24, 2009. The plan was aimed at disrupting gun trafficking between the United States and Mexico.
http://rightwingnews.com/videos/video-shows-obama-and-holder-ordered-gun-running-scam-to-drug-cartel/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rightwingnews%2FhGmL+%28Right+Wing+News%29
Peggy, did you miss my comments? “Project Gun Runner” and “Fast and Furious” are not the same thing, and it is a lie to suggest that they are. It is not news that the Obama administration knew about “Project Gunrunner.” Everyone has always known this. What we’re trying to figure out is who knew about “Fast and Furious” and when. This is important, but pretending to find smoking guns where none exist isn’t going to help with that goal.
Chris please be nice to Peggy, she’s a lady, if you think she is mistaken fine, but please don’t say she deliberately lied about anything, she would never do that – I know her well and she would sooner take a beating than to say anything she knew to be untrue.
Jack, the “lie” charge was directed more at Peggy’s source than Peggy herself. It’s possible that they are both simply mistaken, but at the same time I find it hard to believe that anyone actually concerned with this issue (and not just concerned about making the president look bad) wouldn’t have learned by now that Project Gunrunner and Fast and Furious are not interchangeable terms. That’s crucial information, and it’s information that I had already provided, so it seriously irked me to see that ignored. I am sure Peggy simply overlooked my comment and didn’t know the difference, but now that she knows the conflation is a lie I am sure she won’t make that mistake again.
I’m sure you are right Chris, good enough then. Peggy is a really nice lady and I think you would like and respect her if you knew her on a personal level. I tend to be protective of our ladies that write here. I appreciate their wisdom and stimulating thoughts and I’m willing to be you feel the same.
Jack, I know lots of conservative women and they are all lovely in person, but I wouldn’t ever discuss politics with them. On an internet message board, I am of course going to be a little more upfront, but hopefully not to the point of disrespect. Heck, I could probably get along with Sarah Palin herself, but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to call out her many political gaffes. 😉
Okay Chris, I know you are a gentleman, but sometimes you can be a little overly aggressive in pursuit of making your point. I do admire your enthusiasm and conviction it’s just nice to be able to be diplomatic and still make the same point.
Hey guys sorry for my mistake in getting the two mixed up.
Chris, you were right and I was wrong. I did get them confused.
Jack, thanks for coming to my defense.
I will try to be more careful in the future. I’m hear to learn and to share when I can.
Hey guys sorry for my mistake in getting the two mixed up.
Chris, you were right and I was wrong. I did get them confused.
Jack, thanks for coming to my defense.
I will try to be more careful in the future. I’m here to learn and to share when I can.
Chris, Just a point of clarification. I did not write the above information below the double line and in quotes.
Project Gun Runner (Fast and Furious)….” was copied out of the article.
Is it wrong or am I still confused as to the difference of Gun Runner, Gun Walker and Fast and Furious?
Peggy, hey it’s easy to confuse these events – I’m still confused!!! lol
Peggy, thanks for admitting the mistake–that shows character.
It is confusing, but essentially, Project Gunrunner was a program authorized by the Bush administration and continued by Obama. As far as I’m aware, neither Holder nor Obama has ever denied being aware of Project Gunrunner. Fast and Furious was a top-secret extension of Gunrunner. Fast and Furious is what led to those deaths, and that’s the program that the administration has denied knowledge of.
Ok, I went back and reread the articles to see if I could figure this whole thing out, and this is what I came up with. What I found is both Gun Runner and Gun Walker make cross references to Fast and Furious and both were involved with the guns going to Mexico. Never did find out when Gun Walker started.
Gun Runner was started in 2001 to let straw buyers take guns from America to Mexico with the primary goal of following the guns in hopes of them leading the ATF to drug lords. That all changed when a frustrated AFT assistant director changed the operation in Sept. 2010.
Here is a quote from the article.
Mark Chait, ATFs assistant director in charge of field operations, told the Center he personally decided to change the strategy in September 2010 after years of futile efforts to interdict guns from small-time straw buyers with little hope of dismantling major drug trafficking organizations in Mexico. The agencys earlier focus on straw buyers was criticized last fall in a review by the Justice Departments inspector general of ATFs border effort, known as Project Gunrunner.
Gun Walker was brought under the gun when an ATF agent Vince Cefalu became a whistleblower and lost his job for bringing the operation to light before the House Oversight committee.
Here is a quote from the article.
One of the whistleblowers who brought the massive Gun Walker scandal to light, ATF Special Agent Vince Cefalu, was terminated after a thirty-year career last week the day after House Oversight chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA) sent a warning letter to the Bureau, demanding a promise that there would be no retaliatory firings of whistleblowers
Fast and Furious took place in Gun Runner according to the article with a change in strategy.
Quote from Gun Runner article:
Dodson told the Center he and several of his colleagues wanted to intercept some of the weapons but their objections were repeatedly overruled by ATF supervisors. The supervisors instructed them to simply record the straw purchases in a database, flag them as suspect, and monitor the suspected gun runners until evidence piled up about their connections to Mexican drug lords.
The tactics employed in the Fast and Furious case were part of an evolving change in the strategic direction of firearms investigations, ATF officials told the Center.
Fast and Furious also took place in Gun Walker or at least there were agents from ATF involved in both from what I can figure out.
Quote from Run Walker article:
Ironically, one of the reasons given for Cefalus termination was a lack of candor. He was previously turned into a desk ornament for daring to become a vocal critic of an illegal wiretap. Since he spoke up about Gun Walker, he spent most of his time changing batteries or filling cars with gas. He has described Operation Fast and Furious, designed to flood Mexico with American guns, as a violation of the law, maintaining there was no intent to follow the guns this never had a chance of succeeding.
So, now that Ive figured out who is who, on to figuring out the when, and how it all ties together with those in command, if it does.
Phew!!! Time for a glass of wine.