An Experiment in Idealism – State of Jefferson

by Jack Lee

Recently several of our liberal commenters have publically opposed the State of Jefferson, saying it’s a waste of time because it’s never going to happen.   I would remind them that standing up for the same idealism on which this nation was founded is never a waste of time.  

Sure, the odds are pretty long that we will be allowed by Sacramento to petition Washington.   We all know that, but we’re convinced this is the best option when it comes to fair taxation and equal representation.   No questi0n, the odds are long, but they are not insurmountable.  It only requires a determined will to overcome those long odds.    If enough Northern Californian’s demand statehood and they say it long enough and loud enough, it will happen.   Jerico’s walls will come tumbling down, not with a horn, but with the voice of the people.  There will be no holding back America’s 51st State, if we so resolve it and that is the biggest obstical of them all.  Do we have the courage of our convictions? 

In the words of Dewey Bueno one of our detractors, “I want to get all politicians on the take out !”  That’s an almost impossible mission isn’t it?   But, he’s not distracted by the odds,  Dewey is determined to do what is right.   This sums up the State of Jefferson movement.   Don’t be deterred by our odds Dewey – do what is right.   

 

 

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31 Responses to An Experiment in Idealism – State of Jefferson

  1. Princess says:

    I agree that this is never going to happen. But if we sit quietly up here just taking crap from Southern California nothing is going to change. They are using our resources and taking the bulk of federal monies given to our state. Ridiculous. Why should we pay for infrastructure improvements that make it easier to ship our water down to their swimming pools and golf courses? We deserve to have great roads and bridges like the massive freeway systems in LA. I want to be able to drive to Eureka on a safe road. I want more public works projects like the Hwy 149 improvement near Oroville.

    I realize that liberals want us to ride our bikes and take the bus everywhere, but some of us need our cars.

  2. Tina says:

    Jack I agree with you. We need to garner enough public support and then persistence will be the key to making this happen. The most encouraging thing to me was the sober approach that the leadership in this has taken. I was very impressed that they would look at the value that this solution to our problem could bring to those in the southern part of the state. The deal must be equitable for both or the legislators will never consider letting us go.

  3. Pie Guevara says:

    It could happen, but even if it could not there is no reason for those with a dream not to pursue it. At the very least it will bring attention to the problems with the Democratic Party oligarchy in Sacramento and the tyranny of urban megalopolises.

  4. dewey says:

    How about we concentrate on our State california. Southern Cal? Ya mean the biggest Tax base in cal? SF to San Diego supports the State.

    The great State of california is a treasure.

    • Post Scripts says:

      The money they waste could fund the entire State of Jefferson. Then again, you must not care about the waste or you wouldn’t be so supportive of Sacramento lawmakers. That places you in a minority, about 12-14% of Californian’s approve of our legislators. And probably 90% of that number are family members. So you are truly exceptional.

  5. Libby says:

    Oh, but I don’t only question the probability, I question your ideals: the integrity of your low-tax paradise to be founded on the principles laid down by a man who publicly decried slavery as a moral evil … but kept slaves as an economic expedient.

    • Post Scripts says:

      Libby, please tell us exactly who your hero’s are and let’s see if they have faults. Go ahead, I’m sitting here waitin. C’mon, name a few and let me see what I find on them.

  6. Peggy says:

    Princess’ remarks about our roads and freeways in the north compared to those in the south reminded me of the almost ten years it took to replace the Nimitz (880) section of freeway that collapsed during the Loma Prieta earthquake on Oct. 17, 1989 and completed in 1997. Yet, it only took THREE MONTHS to reopen the freeways in southern California after the Northridge earthquake on Jan. 17, 1994 and completed in April 1994.

    Nimitz:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypress_Street_Viaduct

    Northridge:
    “Santa Monica Freeway to Reopen on Tuesday : Recovery: The contractor will get a $14.5-million bonus for finishing earthquake repairs 74 days early.

    Less than three months after the Northridge earthquake knocked down two sections of the world’s busiest thoroughfare, Gov. Pete Wilson announced Tuesday that the Santa Monica Freeway will reopen next week, ending frustrating delays and bottlenecks for thousands of commuters.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northridge_quake

    Understanding that other factors were probably involved I still find the difference unacceptable and reflective of the south’s needs being met first to the detriment and funding by those of us in the north.

  7. Tina says:

    Libby: “to be founded on the principles laid down by a man who publicly decried slavery as a moral evil…”

    And which of those principles do you oppose?

  8. Tina says:

    Dewey the great state of California within the last five years has decimated one of the biggest sources of revenue to the state, the Central Valley. In doing so they caused massive job losses and put a number of farmers out of business. The extreme position Sacto has on energy means the state misses out on millions of dollars in lost revenue not to mention jobs. The corporatism (and pandering to the special interest green lobby) is the problem”

    Here’s the scoop from non-FOX sources:

    AgAlert:

    UC Davis agricultural economist Richard Howitt told the board that, based on an 85 percent cut in water deliveries for the State Water Project and the federal Central Valley Project, “We’re estimating a 50 percent increase in groundwater pumping, compared to 2005. We’re also factoring in the removal of older permanent crops and the use of stress irrigation, as well as the likelihood of water trades.”

    Based on those assumptions, he said, “The take-home message is that we’ll lose $1.15 billion in income to those who live in the Central Valley, a serious loss. The other striking thing is the loss of jobs. We’re going to lose 40,000 jobs, and these are job losses for those who can least afford them in the valley’s small, rural towns.”

    He said the model, which is still being constructed and does not include livestock operations, indicates lost revenue for farming of at least $800 million.

    “If there are further reductions in water supplies to the east side of the San Joaquin Valley, these losses can go up,” Howitt warned. “We cannot predict prices for cross-valley water transfers because they are complicated by the role of second- and third-party water districts.”

    City Journal:

    …green dreams are not new to California politics. But their consequences, in this case (Delta smelt), have been particularly dire: rich farmland idled, workers laid off, and massive tax revenues forfeited. Worse still, they coincide with a $25 billion annual state deficit, an overtaxed and fleeing elite populace, unsustainable pension obligations for public employees, a growing population of illegal aliens—and a world food shortage. This insolvent state is in far too much trouble to predicate its agricultural future on fish.

    And what do the geniuses in Sacramento want…a bullet train to nowhere out in the central valley where years later they haven’t found the funding or resolved environmental issues. I call this gross mismanagement of the peoples hard earned cash…not to mention nutty.

    The reasons for forming the state of Jefferson are not only important, they are justified.

  9. Libby says:

    I actually admire Thomas Jefferson, but I see his political failings, several of which have been remediated since he lived by means of, among other things, higher taxes.

    I’m not sure your going to be able to persuade people to give up those gains … to live in a state modeled on the economy of Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, and the like.

  10. Tina says:

    You didn’t really answer the question, Libby. You spoke of principles and then switched to political failings…not the same thing.

    I’ve lived in states with few people and less need for government largesse. No matter where you live you sacrifice some things for others. I’m sure those in the big cities love the restaurants and museums, the plethora of shopping options and all the rest but you do sacrifice air quality, a quieter, more open space, and less crime for all of that convenience and goodies. To each his own I always say.

    I imagine the people in the states you listed wouldn’t care to live where you live either in most cases.

  11. Libby says:

    Yes I did. I pointed out that it’s one thing to espouse righteous principles, and I admire Jefferson for doing so. But the unhappy fact is that he did not live up to them. It’s taken a great deal of remedial political action to move the country closer to the ideals he espoused, and one gets the distinct impression that you would like to undo a good deal of this progress in the State of Jefferson … to create, for instance, a state where them as had the means could come down to the Bay Area and desport themselves, without paying the taxes required to maintain these amenities.

    But we already have states just like this. Wouldn’t it be easier just to move to one of them?

  12. Princess says:

    #4 dewey what in the heck are you talking about? They are a larger tax base yes, but they also consume more resources. They have to support more schools, roads, welfare, etc. Northern California is the same size as other states that support themselves just fine. And without the expensive regulations required to keep the air semi breathable for southern California, we would be able to thrive.

    We need to wake ourselves up to facts, not impressions or suppositions. There is a broad tax base up here, and we can support ourselves.

  13. Pie Guevara says:

    Re #10 Tina :”Here’s the scoop from non-FOX sources:”

    But Fox News sources have reported on California water disputes. IT MUST BE A PACK OF LIES!

  14. dewey says:

    Tina I am upset about the valley. All big Ag farms . Monsanto. The water wars are not new.

    The money that is poured into states for these things to happen is usually from the biotech companies and out of state. Jefferson will not be immune!

    People vote wrong and then complain. We can win the war against these guys. Get the Money out!

    But when low info voters follow the out of state $ propaganda then complain it infuriates me.

    I also believe I should not be forced to eat Chinese chicken, GMO’s and poisons which leads to cancer. My health before wall street profits!

    We export apples to china for them to come back with arsenic for wall street profits? NAFTA took our jobs overseas and now that is the new business model?

    The new business model is after a communist country China and the big profits they get off slavery!

    Fracking has ran about 30 south Texas towns dry, get rid of the EPA and watch our water turn toxic.

    The coast guard has an issue on the table right now. Allow the barging of fracking poison down our waterways. They will never spill, Oh no never!

    All to save multimillion dollar companies money? No truck them out. The amount of damage to our farm and drinking water can not be reversed! They make millions! truck it out!

    Have you ever seen the spills all around our country from the pipelines to china?

    Have you see the Tar sands snow in Alberta?

    That is the point. The Koch’s lead people around by the nose and all they want is to rid the protections that even give us a reason to fight over that water.

    Water will be the #1 commodity very very soon as the world poisons our water. And I Mean real soon!

    We are getting radiation spikes from Fukushima around 70! The ocean boiled at Fuku! our fish and coastline is being contaminated!

    The Gov is covering it up cause there is absolutely nothing they can do. A matter of time before someone reports it. Mainstream media does not even mention it!

    This month Tepco will be trying to remove the rods. I fought for an international all hands on deck! That alone is very very dangerous. Fuku is a total meltdown.

    Protect what we have left. I will fight for those farms. I drive between Norcal and Socal often.

    Do not kid yourself. water is precious and I do not believe in over regulation but water will be a #1 business soon.

    http://www.nuclearpowerdaily.com/reports/Tepco_plans_removal_of_Fukushima_fuel_rods_999.html

    http://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Small-Texan-Communities-Dry-Up-as-Fracking-Industry-Takes-Water.html

    These are things going on right now this month. Millionaires trying to buy the rights to do wahtever they want?

    These things are not a maybe they are NOW!

    money buys the elections and the votes. We need to train people to ignore the propaganda. To educate on facts. Agree to disagree but vote on the issues intelligently. We will make good decisions together.

    The Biotech companies, banks, Koch;s ect do not have America in their best interests! just more money.

  15. Tina says:

    Libby: “Yes I did. I pointed out that it’s one thing to espouse righteous principles, and I admire Jefferson for doing so. But the unhappy fact is that he did not live up to them.”

    I asked which of his principles you opposed. I did not ask you to rate the man in terms of his principles. You simply tried to change the subject…you do this quite often.

    “It’s taken a great deal of remedial political action to move the country closer to the ideals he espoused…”

    Like what?

    and one gets the distinct impression that you would like to undo a good deal of this progress in the State of Jefferson … to create, for instance, a state where them as had the means could come down to the Bay Area and desport themselves without paying the taxes required to maintain these amenities.”

    You mean like Bay Area “tourists” do in the states of Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and Nevada. Gee, most people like the revenue and jobs that such tourism supports…you really are stingy and closed…are you sure you are a progressive?

    “But we already have states just like this. Wouldn’t it be easier just to move to one of them?”

    Right now…no. Besides, if we can accomplish this I won’t have to. I like that.

  16. dewey says:

    This is the 21st century,

    Thomas Jefferson would have a completely different wording to adhere to the results of the central banks to which he warned about.

  17. Jim says:

    To me the best thing about a state of Jefferson would be getting away from the control of Southern California and The Bay Area. We would regain control of our natural resources and not have our tax dollars and water go to LA.

    • Post Scripts says:

      Jim, thank you for your comments. Yes, this is about protecting Northern California and our future. I can’t stress it enough, this is not about one political party or another, it’s about the people who live in this region and how we are represented in Sacramento. We have serious water, power and other natural resource issues coming up and it could cost us all dearly if the legislation only favors SoCal. Of course there are many, many issues that neither end of the state can comprehend without seeing them up close and that is why local represention is helpful to a fair and reasonable solution.

  18. Harold says:

    Jim has identified the issue with the liberal contributors here at Post Scripts, and that would be the loss of something being provided by someone else labor. If it benefits Liberals with out much undo effort unto themselves life is good. To become more self reliant to the degree of providing for themselves, then life is unfair. This paragraph from a resent article sums up the point;

    Conservatism has always been the last bastion of optimism. We cannot lose our ownership of that. Progressivism sees the world as a negative and antagonistic place that must be guarded against. Conservatives see the world as gift, each day full of possibility for those who will take the responsibility to capture it. My friends, Conservatives are the party of hope. They are the party of confidence, and the party of optimism.
    No matter what sad, hopeless lies the liberals try to force feed us…

  19. Tina says:

    Dewey: “Get the money out”

    The Supreme Court ruled that money is speech. Besides you don’t want to get the money out; you just want certain money out. I’ll bet that union money and green money are perfectly acceptable to you.

    “I also believe I should not be forced to eat Chinese chicken”

    Forced? Geez, Dewey, you can’t be that helpless. Find a source for organically raised chickens, buy a plot of ground and grow your own, find a local farmer and work with him to raise some chickens that would pass muster for you.

    “We export apples to china for them to come back with arsenic”

    Buy your apples from the local grower(s) in Paradise!

    “NAFTA took our jobs overseas”

    NAFTA is a trade agreement with Canada and Mexico. Trade with other countries is reciprocal.

    Jobs go overseas for many reasons. The biggest is that American workers priced themselves out of the market by demanding more in compensation than companies could justify. GM is a perfect example. The union demanded healthcare and pension benefits that were unsustainable. Union workers believe they should get the same compensation as the people who put their money at risk and are responsible for the entire operation….the communist ideal…that never becomes reality in communist countries.

    Another reason is growing demand in those countries. It makes sense to build products where there is growing customer demand.

    Cheaper (reasonable in the area) labor is absolutely a reason. If you want some of thiose jobs back you better learn to compete by being more reasonable in your own demands.

    “The new business model is after a communist country China”

    Bunk! The business model is exactly what it has always been. Offer a good product at a reasonable price to satisfy customers. Break any one of those and the model will fail. Most companies today realize that happy workers are important to a successful business. They just refuse to be bulldozed by a greedy leech mentality that will sink the business or cause a near permenant state of near bankruptcy. (GM)

    “Fracking has ran about 30 south Texas towns dry, get rid of the EPA and watch our water turn toxic.”

    Right, because none of the people who run those companies drink water and have children and grandchildren who will need clean water in the future. Oil companies have spent a lot of money to clean up areas and to create cleaner methods. The innovation continues. At the same time they deliver energy that has made our lives better and supported industries that create millions of jobs so our citizens can work and provide for their families. The benefit outways by far any temporary damage that might occur to a local area. Run dry? What the heck does that even mean! Show me the stacked up bodies. The extreme green lobby is grossly exagerating the damage and vilifying companies without cause.

    “They will never spill, Oh no never!”

    Get a grip! Once again show me the bodies! Show me the permanent damage!

    The earth is resiliant and people are working all of the time innovate new ways to extract the products and deliver the products safely.

    “Have you ever seen the spills all around our country from the pipelines to china? … Have you see the Tar sands snow in Alberta?”

    Pictures taken on a single day and promoted as the condition that will remain forever! Green hype and guess why? So the greens invested in wind and solar can make money!!!!! These types also lobby Congress to pass punishing regulations on the competition to make money (can’t compete otherwise)…they lobby for carbon taxes that make energy very expensive for consumers. Remember that business model? Deliver a good product at a reasonable price. the greens don’t give a rip about the consummer/customer. Obama even said out loud he would put the coal compnies out of business and energy prices would have to be high…all to line their own pockets will MONEY! A movement that has to destroy the competition is much more suspect in my mind.

    Your concerns may be honorable but the people pushing the green agenda are anything but honorable.

    The Koch’s have delivered good products at reasonable prices with very little damage. they have also paid money out of their profits to find ways to deliver those products cleanly. They ahve made a lot of money because there is high demand for the things their companies sell. It isn’t a conspiracy. It is simply business and business that enriches the lives of people.

    As for the rest of your post…Dewey you are a true believer…in nonsense. Have a great day!

  20. Libby says:

    Jim, you also have to consider that LA’s tax dollars would not be coming here. It’s an important consideration.

  21. Libby says:

    “We need to wake ourselves up to facts, not impressions or suppositions. There is a broad tax base up here, and we can support ourselves.”

    But this, itself, is a supposition and/or impression until you show us some numbers, which none of these movement organizers have yet done.

    Our five Bay Area Bridges generate about a $1M a day in revenue, financing all manner of projects all over the state. That’s 400,000 cars crossing five bridges everyday at $5 per round trip.

    Show me your comparable revenue source. Something that’s gonna generate the $38M for the 99 Highway widening?

    You’d have to turn your little stretch of I-5 into a toll road … in other words, extort revenue from folk out-of-state. That don’t sound self-supporting to me.

  22. Tina says:

    Libby: “Our five Bay Area Bridges generate about a $1M a day in revenue, financing all manner of projects all over the state. … Show me your comparable revenue source.”

    There you go, counting the revenue without counting the cost! The Golden Gate bridge is painted all year long

    Then there are expansion and repair costs. Here’s one example:

    SF Public Press:

    When completed, the new east span of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge will be not only the most complex engineering feat in California history, but also the most expensive, with a cost never subjected to public scrutiny.

    Although today’s price tag stands at $6.3 billion, the figure accounts for only salaries and hard materials—things like concrete and steel and cranes. When all is said and done, the new Bay Bridge will wind up costing tax- and toll-payers more than $12 billion—a figure that leaves even the officials in charge “staggered.”

    Much of the difference comes from interest and other financing charges—money that commuters will be paying off until at least 2049. Little attention has been paid to billions of dollars not included in the direct construction cost projections published in glossy public reports.

    Why the price has skyrocketed is a tale of politics, bureaucratic bumbling, and unforeseen construction problems—all classic ingredients of California public works projects. It is a tale of obscure but powerful agencies, legislative bickering, and four successive governors grappling with a project so massive and complex that one consultant suggested the human mind might be unable to grasp, or accept, “the magnitude of the undertaking and the time and resources required to complete it.”

    While public attention is focused on something new and grand, replacing the aging and increasingly unreliable existing east span with an iconic edifice that will define the San Francisco Bay into the next century, it is easy to overlook other aspects of the Bay Bridge project that contribute to spiraling costs. Caltrans officials are expected to announce this week that problems in Asia, where the majority of the bridge is being manufactured, will push those costs even higher. Among those are problems with fabrication and shipping of critical steel components in China that could add $100 million or more to the final price tag, and international bickering over design drawings and blueprints that could ultimately cost tens of millions more. (continues)

    Ahhh yes, big government! The perfect example of when liberalism’s wide eyed dreams meet the realities of it’s own fiscal mismanagement.

    Residents living eastward across the Hayward Hills payed higher taxes for BART for a good thirty or forty years. during most of that time they got to take a bus ride most of the way to their destination.

    Balance, girl, balance!

  23. Libby says:

    Uh, … Tina, if you were thinking that the above paragraphs in any way refute the fact the the bay area bridges generate income to fund projects all over the state … you are mistaken.

    Furthermore, how do any of those paragraphs address the question … where is Jefferson gonna get the revenue to keep itself from?

  24. Tina says:

    Libby: “if you were thinking that the above paragraphs in any way refute the fact the the bay area bridges generate income to fund projects all over the state … you are mistaken.”

    And if you think the bulk of the bridge toll and transportation department funds actually pay for transportation projects, as they are supposed to, you are mistaken. The revenue from car licensing, bridges tolls, and gasoline taxes are supposed to be used to fund transportation related projects but quite often the funds are “borrowed” and put in the general fund to pay for public pensions and healthcare…not to mention exotic pet projects!

    City Journal has an excellent article, “The Pension Fund That Ate California,” explaining the unfortunate history of Calpers.

    “…where is Jefferson gonna get the revenue to keep itself”

    Well shucks girl, since you seem to think we’re all barefoot and stupid I’m sure you think we’ll just wither and die but the truth is we will get the revenue from the same types of sources that any state gets them. Are ya not aware of the property and business owners up here? Have you no sense of the recreational and tourist draw of the North State? Are you completely unaware of the manufacturing that exists and that might once again thrive in a more business friendly state?

    This is a fairly new idea…this time around. The numbers will be calculated and considered.

    I can’t quite shake the idea that you honestly believe you are dealing with a bunch of hayseeds. Do you have any idea how arrogant and prejudiced you sound? What are you thinking, “Little House on the Prairie”…”Bonanza”? Most of us drive cars and have bank accounts, houses and such.

    I really don’t get why this is a biggie for you.

  25. Tina says:

    Pie: “But Fox News sources have reported on California water disputes”

    Darn…the cover is blown.

  26. Libby says:

    Yes, yes … I’m a dreadful human being … but, still, … you say nothing. You propose to lower property taxes. You propose to lower business taxes. So, tell us, from whence will come the revenue to run your state?

    • Post Scripts says:

      Libby, c’mon you are not even trying to use your imagination here. For example…California has many expenditures that are voluntary and unecessary. Some are completely unique to CA only. Given that premise, and without listing each and every one for you, I’m sure that our citizens could survive without the need for every single expenditure CA has in the budget at the moment. That’s one area of savings. Another is having a part time legislature with a reduced pay scale. We also won’t have a need for a bullet train, we won’t have a canal from the delta to LA. We won’t be paying for the bulk of welfare recipients that live south of Yuba/Sutter County. We won’t be paying for the bulk of criminals now in prisons located in SoCal…you know most inmates originate from outside Norcal’s 20 counties, right? And this includes illegal aliens that make up almost 15% of our prison population. We won’t be paying for the cost of enforcing a whole host of goofy CA regs and laws, but aside from merely saving money that we currently see wasted in CA…the revenue to run the State will come from businesses relocating to NorCal because of reasonable taxation. No doubt Jefferson would have some of the same taxes as CA, only lower. Cost of living will also be less because the overhead on business will be lower leading to lower prices. The long list of ways to reduce the need for taxes and also generate tax revenue for basic services is way too long for me to write here. Just use your imagination Libby…there are so many ways to do things better than the mess CA has created!

  27. Tina says:

    Jack unless the state of Jefferson is immediately overrun with leftists the opportunity to start fresh with state employees would make a huge difference.

    Take educators for instance. If personal 401K’s could be established for teachers instead of state run pensions schemes, and if we could eliminate the layers of bureaucratic overseers in the school districts placing greater focus and funds in the individual schools and classrooms we could save ourselves a bundle!

    A new report finds that the trust fund that provides pensions to retired teachers has a $64 billion deficit and would need a $4.5 billion per year infusion of revenue to become fully solvent, according to a new internal study. The report was produced by the California State Teachers Retirement System.

    All state employees should be given a salary or wages but their pensions should be in individual accounts like the rest of us have.

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